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Dual ARS to replace blind turn coordinator? :)
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jimmyz80 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 Jul 2021 at 11:54pm
Our older Cirrus planes which are the initial target market for Vantage, have an old school turn coordinator gyro hidden behind the panel for the DFC90 to use as a secondary reference. Is there any chance with Vantage having dual ARS, you can complete certification with the DFC90 referencing those as two separate sources, and eliminating the gyro? It'd be nice to save a few pounds and eliminate a common source of problems.
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It is my understanding that the turn coordinator comparator is not used in the DFC STC anymore.
Steve Lindsley
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THAT would be really great and another good reason for the upgrade
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Originally posted by AviSteve AviSteve wrote:

It is my understanding that the turn coordinator comparator is not used in the DFC STC anymore.

Can you clarify this?  Could an existing DFC90 install in a Cirrus now remove the TC and how would that be accomplished, i.e. through a software change or ??
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I understand that the second AHRS in the MFD replaces the TC in this respect.
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Originally posted by Aerochip Aerochip wrote:

Originally posted by AviSteve AviSteve wrote:

It is my understanding that the turn coordinator comparator is not used in the DFC STC anymore.

Can you clarify this?  Could an existing DFC90 install in a Cirrus now remove the TC and how would that be accomplished, i.e. through a software change or ??
Yes, you would need the latest DFC90 software.
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Super.  Will remember this when the TC inevitably dies!  
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Points: 55 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2021 at 8:48am
What is the latest DFC 90 software version, we just purchased ours in March and it was installed at our annual in April and the shop that did it kept the TC in there as well Looking at the PFD I can see the DFC90 Top Level Part Number as 510-00874-000_REV03

What would one need to do to get it updated? 
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Originally posted by gremlin gremlin wrote:

What is the latest DFC 90 software version, we just purchased ours in March and it was installed at our annual in April and the shop that did it kept the TC in there as well Looking at the PFD I can see the DFC90 Top Level Part Number as 510-00874-000_REV03

What would one need to do to get it updated? 
Latest version was from 4/10/2014.  I don't have the part number handy, but I just happen to have the checksum for that version - 0x69CEC547 (which I'm sure makes me a real geek...).  You can check that on the PFD maintenance page.

If you need to update it, I'd first start with tech support.
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Points: 55 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2021 at 8:03am
Okay lookes like I have that version, I see "DFC90 Application: 0x69cec547"

So I wonder why my installer thought I needed the TC kept in the plane. Does it do anythin gif it's still there?
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Originally posted by gremlin gremlin wrote:

Okay looks like I have that version, I see "DFC90 Application: 0x69cec547"

So I wonder why my installer thought I needed the TC kept in the plane. Does it do anything if it's still there?
It won't hurt anything, but the DFC90 won't use it.
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From a response I found in another thread, the SB apparently only allows for the removal of the TC from planes that came equipped with STEC-30 or STEC-50 APs, but the majority of us whose planes came with the STEC-55X need to keep the TC.

I haven't seen the actual text, so maybe AviSteve can help verify this is true. If so, it's a bummer and I still hope Vantage will finally ditch the TC. :)


Edited by jimmyz80 - 29 Jul 2021 at 10:39pm
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Points: 55 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2021 at 12:42pm
Yup I had the STEC-55x so that's why the isntaller didn't remove it, if there's something that shows it isn't being used and could be removed that'd be cool to have. Not a fan of keeping gear in the plane that's not being used
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I can't hear you over the sound of "GYRO MISCOMPARE". I want so badly to toss that thing out...
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Points: 162 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ansond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2023 at 6:42am
Hey @AviSteve... I am wondering if my DFC90 needs to be updated.. here is my checksum values:

I am an (excited!!) Vantage deposit holder... will my DFC90 automatically get an update when we do the Vantage install (hence I just wait for that...everything is working great atm...)?  Thanks for any guidance you can provide!  


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Originally posted by ansond ansond wrote:

... I am wondering if my DFC90 needs to be updated.. 
Thanks for being an excited Vantage customer!  We're making great progress on getting that finished up.

While there is a later software version for your DFC90, there are no functional changes in that release.  So, your autopilot will not require an update when Vantage comes along.
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Following up on this topic.  During testing today, it seems this is mostly correct.  The DFC90 did not have any issues performing a ground test with the blind turn coordinator disabled.  The PFD did however display "TC Fail" on the top right.

Can we confirm Vantage will display no such messages or if there is a future version of PFD software it will not display this message since the DFC90 no longer uses the TC?






Edited by carman3 - 16 Aug 2023 at 7:05am
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Vantage does not have the TC Fail message.

Correction: If your DFC90 supports a no-TC configuration, Vantage will not show the TC Fail message.

If your DFC90 still expects a TC, then the message could appear.  In that case, you really should get the software update to the DFC90.


Edited by AviSteve - 18 Aug 2023 at 4:22am
Steve Lindsley
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Points: 162 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ansond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2023 at 7:23am
@AviSteve... do you happen to know if that software update (for the DFC90) will be part of my vantage update?  Thanks!! Doug
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Not that I'm aware of, but it's probably best to talk to someone on the sales team.
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Points: 55 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2023 at 8:59am
From the checksums given my DFC90 is supposed to be the latest software, how did you disconnect the TC for the test? If it's straight forward I could give it a try and see what mine does.
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Points: 162 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ansond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2023 at 6:21am
You should be able to just pull the T/C circuit breaker... 
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Points: 55 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2025 at 6:18am
Totally forgot about this, until it was referenced in COPA again just recently, went out and pulled the circuit breaker for number 2 TC and nothing happened, so I guess it's not needed.
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