Avidyne Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Avidyne General > IFD 5 Series & IFD 4 Series Touch Screen GPS/NAV/COM
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Wi-Fi questions
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Wi-Fi questions

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
PA23 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 12 Oct 2019
Location: MMU
Status: Online
Points: 24
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PA23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Wi-Fi questions
    Posted: 17 Nov 2019 at 2:11pm
I have the IFD440 and a NGT-9000 (transponder), the transponder is connected to the IFD via this example:

https://techsupport.avidyne.com/kb/article/303-355-l3-ngt9000-interface-with-avidyne-ifd5xx4xx/

I have verified that I do get both traffic and WX displayed on the IFD as expected.  My question however comes from how I should use the Wi-FI. 

The NGT-9000 has a Wi-FI module and broadcasts the FIS-B, TIS-B, GPS position data etc over Wi-FI.  I believe the IFD will take the data received over the RS-232 interface and also broadcast that data over Wi-Fi, but I think it wll include its own GPS derived position.  I believe the only remaining advantage of connecting to the IFD's wifi is to allow me to push/pull flight plans from the unit, assuming my EFB supports the functionality.

This leaves me with a few options
1) join the IFD to the "existing" wi-fi created by the transponder
2) abandon (turn off?)  the existing Wi-fi and connect directly to the IFD
3) Since my EFB of choice doesn't support push/pull of flight plans turn off the IFD 's Wi-FI and continue on the transponder
4) leave them both turned on as separate SSIDs and connect to which ever suits my fancy for the flght.


I'm leaning towards option #1, the question is, are there any pitfalls to receiving the same data from two sources?  The transponder does not allow for encryption since it doesn't listen on wifi but moving at 200mph at several thousand fee I don't really think wi-fi security is a real concern.

Currently TAWS (TSO'd) and Traffic alerting is done by the NGT-9000

-Jeff
Back to Top
Cruiser View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2017
Location: Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cruiser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2019 at 7:47pm
will the IFD 100 iPad app work without the WiFi turned on?
Back to Top
AviSteve View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Location: Melbourne, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 946
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2019 at 10:08pm
The NGT9000 can establish its own WiFi network, but it is not a hub so having other clients connect to it and talk to each other is a problem (e.g. IFD540 and IFD100).  I'm sure others will speak up here if they've gotten it to work, but every attempt I've heard of so far has been unsuccessful. We've spoken to L3 and they have confirmed that it is not suitable for use as a hub.
Steve Lindsley
Avidyne Engineering
Back to Top
PA23 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 12 Oct 2019
Location: MMU
Status: Online
Points: 24
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PA23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2019 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by AviSteve AviSteve wrote:

The NGT9000 can establish its own WiFi network, but it is not a hub so having other clients connect to it and talk to each other is a problem (e.g. IFD540 and IFD100).  I'm sure others will speak up here if they've gotten it to work, but every attempt I've heard of so far has been unsuccessful. We've spoken to L3 and they have confirmed that it is not suitable for use as a hub.


The NGT-9000 uses an Ad-Hoc type network (peer to peer), uses self assigned IP addresses, and simply broadcasts the ADS-B data on the Wi-Fi to anybody that will listen.  The Wi-Fi is only outbound meaning from the NGT-9000 to everybody,  but it is deaf to any traffic sent to the NGT-9000.

Ok so based upon your comments it would sound like the best way to set things up would be to simply abandon/ignore the NGT-9000's Wi-Fi and use the Wi-Fi from the IFD440.  This would allow me to push flight plans etc (should I have the ability).

Am I correct in that the IFD4xx/IFD5xx simply resends everything it hears via ADS-B in back out its Wi-Fi interface except that it provides its own GPS derived position to be sent to the tablet/EFB???

Thanks, Jeff


Edited by PA23 - 18 Nov 2019 at 12:51pm
Back to Top
AviSteve View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Location: Melbourne, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 946
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2019 at 5:05pm
Originally posted by PA23 PA23 wrote:

Ok so based upon your comments it would sound like the best way to set things up would be to simply abandon/ignore the NGT-9000's Wi-Fi and use the Wi-Fi from the IFD440.  This would allow me to push flight plans etc (should I have the ability).

Am I correct in that the IFD4xx/IFD5xx simply resends everything it hears via ADS-B in back out its Wi-Fi interface except that it provides its own GPS derived position to be sent to the tablet/EFB???
Yes, that's correct.
Steve Lindsley
Avidyne Engineering
Back to Top
Kentucky Captain View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Location: KBRY
Status: Offline
Points: 145
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kentucky Captain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2019 at 10:21pm
Originally posted by AviSteve AviSteve wrote:

Originally posted by PA23 PA23 wrote:

Ok so based upon your comments it would sound like the best way to set things up would be to simply abandon/ignore the NGT-9000's Wi-Fi and use the Wi-Fi from the IFD440.  This would allow me to push flight plans etc (should I have the ability).

Am I correct in that the IFD4xx/IFD5xx simply resends everything it hears via ADS-B in back out its Wi-Fi interface except that it provides its own GPS derived position to be sent to the tablet/EFB???
Yes, that's correct.


OK, Now I'm really confused.  My current configuration is the Aspen 1000 Pro, IFD540, AXP340,  SkyTrax100, Stratus II, and Foreflight on two iPads.  The Stratus is providing the WiFi network and the IFD540 and the iPads are clients on that network. I can push/pull flight plans in-between the IFD and Foreflight and my iPads get ADS-B traffic and wx from the Stratus.

When the airplane goes into the shop in February, The Aspen will get upgraded to the MAX, the AXP340 and SkyTrax100 will get replaced with the NGT9000, and I had planned on pulling the Stratus II. I thought that the IFD and NGT9000 would be on the same WiFi network but that is not what it sounds like here.

What I want is to be able to push/pull flight plans in-between the IFD and Foreflight, have ADS-B traffic and wx on the Aspen, IFD, and Foreflight, and be able to get rid of the Stratus II.

Is that possible with this configuration?
Spending my kid's inheritance, one upgrade at a time.
Back to Top
oskrypuch View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Location: CYFD
Status: Offline
Points: 2584
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2019 at 10:49pm
The Lynx will (should) be wired with a direct RS232 link to the IFD. That will make everything work.

* Orest
Back to Top
Kentucky Captain View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Location: KBRY
Status: Offline
Points: 145
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kentucky Captain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2019 at 12:05am
Originally posted by oskrypuch oskrypuch wrote:

The Lynx will (should) be wired with a direct RS232 link to the IFD. That will make everything work.

* Orest


OK, I got that the IFD and NGT will be physically connected.  What about being able to upload flight plans to the IFD from Foreflight and simultaneously getting WX and traffic on Foreflight?  Flight plan data transfer is obviously between the IFD and Foreflight but what about WX and traffic on Foreflight with this configuration?  Thanks,
Spending my kid's inheritance, one upgrade at a time.
Back to Top
AviSteve View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Location: Melbourne, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 946
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2019 at 9:16am
Originally posted by Kentucky Captain Kentucky Captain wrote:

OK, I got that the IFD and NGT will be physically connected.  What about being able to upload flight plans to the IFD from Foreflight and simultaneously getting WX and traffic on Foreflight?  Flight plan data transfer is obviously between the IFD and Foreflight but what about WX and traffic on Foreflight with this configuration?  Thanks,
Foreflight will pick up the traffic and weather from the IFD over WiFi.
Steve Lindsley
Avidyne Engineering
Back to Top
Kentucky Captain View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Location: KBRY
Status: Offline
Points: 145
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kentucky Captain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2019 at 11:16am
Originally posted by AviSteve AviSteve wrote:

Originally posted by Kentucky Captain Kentucky Captain wrote:

OK, I got that the IFD and NGT will be physically connected.  What about being able to upload flight plans to the IFD from Foreflight and simultaneously getting WX and traffic on Foreflight?  Flight plan data transfer is obviously between the IFD and Foreflight but what about WX and traffic on Foreflight with this configuration?  Thanks,
Foreflight will pick up the traffic and weather from the IFD over WiFi.


Great, I did not know that.  So, Even without the NGT9000 I can dispense with the Stratus II and use the IFD540, AXP340, SkyTrax100 combo for my ADS-B traffic and WX on my iPad with Foreflight?  Thanks,
Spending my kid's inheritance, one upgrade at a time.
Back to Top
AZ Flyer View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Location: Tucson, AZ
Status: Offline
Points: 117
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AZ Flyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2019 at 9:42am
The Stratus or the NGT9000 gets you dual band in; the SkyTrax 100 does not.

Edited by AZ Flyer - 21 Nov 2019 at 2:54pm
Stan Kartchner
Back to Top
skitheo View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 02 Jan 2016
Location: 3S8
Status: Offline
Points: 79
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skitheo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2019 at 1:53pm
@AviSteve: Does the IFD pass through all of the new FIS-B products? I.e. Lightning, icing, etc.
Back to Top
AviSteve View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Location: Melbourne, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 946
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2019 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by skitheo skitheo wrote:

@AviSteve: Does the IFD pass through all of the new FIS-B products? I.e. Lightning, icing, etc.
The IFD will pass the new products through but it does not process them yet.
Steve Lindsley
Avidyne Engineering
Back to Top
HenryM View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Oct 2017
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 353
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HenryM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2019 at 4:24pm
Originally posted by Kentucky Captain Kentucky Captain wrote:

Great, I did not know that.  So, Even without the NGT9000 I can dispense with the Stratus II and use the IFD540, AXP340, SkyTrax100 combo for my ADS-B traffic and WX on my iPad with Foreflight?  Thanks,

I have an IFD540, AXP340 and SkyTrax100. I get traffic and weather on ForeFlight without any issues. My iPad is connected to the IFD-540 WiFi network. I can upload and download flight plans, in addition to getting traffic and weather. You do have to have the latest IFD firmware loaded for everything to work.

The one thing missing is the dual-band input that the Stratus provides. That is usually not a big deal unless you are out of range of the ADS-B towers or outside the US. I would prefer a dual-band input, but there is not one available yet. Freeflight is supposed to be coming out with a dual-band unit. I thought upgrading the AXP340/SkyTraxx to something like the NGT9000 but decided that I'm mostly getting what I need from the SkyTrax100. If I find a cost effective dual-band input, I may upgrade the SkyTrax. I didn't find the screen of the NGT9000 that useful when I flew with one in a Cardinal. I'd rather see the information on the IFD screen or my iPad. I like the AXP340 and the mostly Avidyne center stack. 
Back to Top
skitheo View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 02 Jan 2016
Location: 3S8
Status: Offline
Points: 79
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skitheo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2019 at 5:57pm
Did you consider the NGT9000R? It is a complete option which can be remote controlled by the IFD.
Back to Top
Kentucky Captain View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Location: KBRY
Status: Offline
Points: 145
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kentucky Captain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2019 at 11:57pm
Originally posted by HenryM HenryM wrote:

Originally posted by Kentucky Captain Kentucky Captain wrote:

Great, I did not know that.  So, Even without the NGT9000 I can dispense with the Stratus II and use the IFD540, AXP340, SkyTrax100 combo for my ADS-B traffic and WX on my iPad with Foreflight?  Thanks,

I have an IFD540, AXP340 and SkyTrax100. I get traffic and weather on ForeFlight without any issues. My iPad is connected to the IFD-540 WiFi network. I can upload and download flight plans, in addition to getting traffic and weather. You do have to have the latest IFD firmware loaded for everything to work.

The one thing missing is the dual-band input that the Stratus provides. That is usually not a big deal unless you are out of range of the ADS-B towers or outside the US. I would prefer a dual-band input, but there is not one available yet. Freeflight is supposed to be coming out with a dual-band unit. I thought upgrading the AXP340/SkyTraxx to something like the NGT9000 but decided that I'm mostly getting what I need from the SkyTrax100. If I find a cost effective dual-band input, I may upgrade the SkyTrax. I didn't find the screen of the NGT9000 that useful when I flew with one in a Cardinal. I'd rather see the information on the IFD screen or my iPad. I like the AXP340 and the mostly Avidyne center stack. 


My center stack is already a mix of vendors,  PS Engineering PMA450, Avidyne IFD540, Garmin GNC255A, Avidyne AXP340, along with the Aspen 1000Pro, STEC30, JPI EDM900, and SkyTrax100.

I don't have any issue with the AXP340.  Nice unit.  I really don't like the SkyTrax100.  It's orphaned and doesn't play nice with the Aspen ADS-B unlock.  It will be in the shop anyway for the Aspen Max upgrade which will take three weeks to do so I thought I would do some other stuff in the downtime.

STEC has been after me to buy one of the 55X refurb units and I kept putting them off, thinking that TruTrak was going to be the one that I upgrade to.  Turns out that the STEC55X has so much integration with the Aspen that it is hard to beat.  I will get Flight Director as the biggie but I also get to use the Aspen Heading bug and Altitude preselect and all indications will be on the Aspen display.   I already have synthetic vision and AOA on the Aspen.  An added perk is that I can do the 55X upgrade for less than the cost of the TruTrak install and that's including adding a turn coordinator back in to replace the removal of the STEC30 head.  It's true that it is rate based but I have been flying the STEC30 for four years and haven't had any issues at all there.

It sounds like I won't get a huge amount of functionality from the NGT9000 except that it will share ADS-B data properly with my Aspen but it does look cool.

What was it about the NGT9000 that you didn't like?
Spending my kid's inheritance, one upgrade at a time.
Back to Top
HenryM View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Oct 2017
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 353
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HenryM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2019 at 9:48am
I have not looked very deeply into changing my STEC-30. It is my first autopilot and has served me well. I guess I'd look at the STEC-3100 or the STEC 55X if I were to get serious. I'd probably want to get more glass first, like the Aspen or dual Garmin G5s.

It is not that I didn't like the NGT9000, I just didn't find the screen as useful as I thought it was going to be. Touch responsiveness was not great, sometimes lagging quite a bit. I preferred to display the traffic and weather information on my iPad, so I didn't find the additional display, and associated price, worth it to me. I'd prefer an AHRS for backup and use with Foreflight. I like having just a couple of buttons to select the squawk code and to select VFR. You might have to flip through a couple of different screens to get the NGT9000 to where you need to enter information in it. All little things. It is a decent unit.

The SkyTrax100 seems to be working for me, though I would prefer a dual-band input and will upgrade it if something compatible comes out. I'm hoping the Freeflight Systems FDL-978-RXD receiver will work (https://www.freeflightsystems.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/RANGR-RX_JUN26.pdf). It is supposed to be out any time now, but I haven't seen a price for it.
Back to Top
chflyer View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jan 2013
Location: LSZK
Status: Offline
Points: 704
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2019 at 12:39pm
Also have an Stec-30.

The Stec-3100 would be the best combination of features and ease of upgrade using the existing servos, but it's not on the radar for my 172XP. It looks like Genesys has no plans for the C172/175 and PA28 lines. Too bad the DFC90 is also a dead end.

The Stec 55X is an older generation and personally I don't see the point investing $10'000+ today on an a/p that doesn't even have the now basic envelope protection and straight&level recovery. Given that I've installed a G5 EAI, it looks like the G* GFC500 will be the only option.

I have the AXP340 for ADS-B Out and have been happy with it. It'll stay until/if I need diversity at which point it looks like uAvionix will be the only play for us bottom-feeders.

Vince
Back to Top
Kentucky Captain View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Location: KBRY
Status: Offline
Points: 145
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kentucky Captain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2019 at 11:08pm
Originally posted by chflyer chflyer wrote:

Also have an Stec-30.

The Stec-3100 would be the best combination of features and ease of upgrade using the existing servos, but it's not on the radar for my 172XP. It looks like Genesys has no plans for the C172/175 and PA28 lines. Too bad the DFC90 is also a dead end.

The Stec 55X is an older generation and personally I don't see the point investing $10'000+ today on an a/p that doesn't even have the now basic envelope protection and straight&level recovery. Given that I've installed a G5 EAI, it looks like the G* GFC500 will be the only option.

I have the AXP340 for ADS-B Out and have been happy with it. It'll stay until/if I need diversity at which point it looks like uAvionix will be the only play for us bottom-feeders.



I would love the 3100 or the GFC500 but it's not a possibility for either the C172 or my Aspen.  The TruTrak does not have Flight Director capability so that's a non-starter.  A refurb 55X is the best compromise that I can do and get what I want.  I know that the 55X is still a rate based system but it works great on the Stec30 and I've experienced no under or over shoots.  It also seems like either the Aspen or 55X was designed around the other since they integrate so well.
Spending my kid's inheritance, one upgrade at a time.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.