Avidyne Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Avidyne General > IFD 5 Series & IFD 4 Series Touch Screen GPS/NAV/COM
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Slingshot wireless
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Slingshot wireless

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
TurboPA30 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2010
Location: 27XS
Status: Offline
Points: 109
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurboPA30 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Slingshot wireless
    Posted: 21 Jul 2018 at 1:43pm
https://youtu.be/-xAaSrtWrYg
YES, PLEASE, I WANT IT for my 540ies!
Back to Top
ddgates View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Location: Deer Valley
Status: Offline
Points: 983
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ddgates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2018 at 2:24pm
My bet is it for for SA navdata.  Our boxes don't use SA.

Highly unlikely.
David Gates
Back to Top
oskrypuch View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Location: CYFD
Status: Offline
Points: 2464
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2018 at 3:28pm
Navdata updates take about a minute, and Obstacles about 20 secs, from the USB stick, minimizing the amount of time needed to do anything in the plane. The charts (if you have them) do take a little longer. But, the more time consuming bit is updating the USB stick, and that is done at my leisure at home, when I notice JDM has an update.

That makes a lot more sense to me than trying to get a good Wifi signal (cellular data would be a bad idea) in the hangar to update there, and sitting around for some time to have it happen.

But, if you really do want to do the wireless thing in the hangar, there already is a Jepp solution for that. Uses a wireless dongle from Bad Elf ...


* Orest





Edited by oskrypuch - 21 Jul 2018 at 3:33pm
Back to Top
Stefan View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 05 Dec 2016
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 11
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stefan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2018 at 7:42am
I second TurboPA30: I also would very much like to use the IFD 100 instead of the USB Stick to update the Jeppesen database on the panel mounted device.

The IFD100 can easily download the most actual Jeppesen Database at home. So it should also be able to download the new Jeppesen database from the IFD100 into the panel mounted device - that is of course after connecting via the IFD540/440 WLAN.

Alternatively: Why can't the Avidyne IDF connect to a hangar mounted WLAN and download the Jeppesen data directly (maybe using the same programming as in IFD100)?
Back to Top
brou0040 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 605
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brou0040 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2018 at 4:31pm
Please don't add any vulnerabilities to our IFDs.  If updating from the internet via wifi is as safe as the current process, then great, but I wouldn't want to add an unnecessary cyber vulnerability.
Back to Top
94S View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Location: Bismarck, ND
Status: Offline
Points: 140
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 94S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 4:19pm
Originally posted by oskrypuch oskrypuch wrote:


That makes a lot more sense to me than trying to get a good Wifi signal (cellular data would be a bad idea) in the hangar to update there, and sitting around for some time to have it happen.


* Orest




I believe the point of Slingshot is that you download the data to your tablet in the comfort of your living room, then take it to the hangar and upload to the panel mount via the panel mount's wifi capability.  


I know this horse has been beat to death many times here, but a statement made by Steve Podradchick on SA's FlyQ blog makes me want to bring it up again, let's have some completion for Jeppesen.  See Steve's comment on July 21, 2018 at 12:38pm here; https://seattleavionics.wordpress.com/2018/07/19/announcing-slingshot-wireless-chartdata-system/#comments 

It seems that SA would "love, love, love, love" (that's four loves) to provide data to Avidyne, and since they provide the same data to other platforms, it seems plausible that it could be done for Avidyne as well.

David
Back to Top
ddgates View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Location: Deer Valley
Status: Offline
Points: 983
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ddgates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 4:55pm
The nonstarter in that is that SA does charts, but as I recall this topic last year or so, doesn't do navdata.


David Gates
Back to Top
AviSteve View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Location: Melbourne, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 590
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 5:16pm
1. Even if Avidyne were inclined to support charts from Seattle Avionics, you would still have to get nav data, terrain, and obstacles from Jeppesen since SA doesn't provide those other products.  Also, since Seattle Avionics provides charts for very few places outside the USA, most of our customers outside of the USA would see no benefit at all.

2. Slingshot is nothing more than a method of transferring chart graphics from your iPad running FlyQ to be displayed on the IFD.  Why in the world would you want to see the chart on the IFD when you have this huge iPad screen?  Not to mention that it would do nothing for IFD440 owners.

3. The pipe between the WiFi controller and the main computer of the IFD was not designed to upload tons of data quickly.  So, uploading nav data or charts would not really be feasible in any reasonable amount of time.  The USB interface is already very efficient, even though I realize that means you need to get into maintenance mode periodically to update databases.

Steve Lindsley
Avidyne Engineering
Back to Top
94S View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Location: Bismarck, ND
Status: Offline
Points: 140
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 94S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 6:07pm
Originally posted by ddgates ddgates wrote:

The nonstarter in that is that SA does charts, but as I recall this topic last year or so, doesn't do navdata.



I've read that before, but when I open FlyQ I see all of the nav data, terrain and obstacles in addition to the charts.  It is not just a chart viewer.  FlyQ would not be an EFB if it didn't have the other data.  So, my conclusion is that SA has all the data the IFD needs, it's just maybe not in a compatible format, which is something that can change if the wheel squeaks loud and long enough.

As for the outside the US issue, I know SA has recently added Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean and have said they are working on the rest.  Someday that argument will go away.

David
Back to Top
dmtidler View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2016
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dmtidler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 7:46pm
I've been an avid user of the FlyQ suite of products for my GA flying for over four years. While it is a robust tool and appears to have an exhaustive collection of airport, navaid, and fix data in its US / North American database that make it an excellent efb; it doesn't appear to have the depth of connections to tie those points of information together that Jeppesen has developed and the IFD's need to make them full featured.

For instance, in FlyQ you cannot currently pull up an instrument approach and add it to your flight plan. Sure, you can view very nice georeferenced plate; even overlay it on a sectional or enroute chart, but you cannot add it to a flight plan without individually adding each waypoint that constitutes the approach and missed approach (provided the waypoints are not conditional). Even with this, there would not be any useful vertical profile information at each added point.

Another example, in FlyQ you can add SIDs and STARs to a route and they will appear tied together as part of a procedure in the FlyQ Nav Log; however, a look at the ICAO flight plan shows not the proposed SID / STAR but the point to point routing of the SID / STAR. Any SIDs or STARs added to a route contain only the lateral point information, no vertical (altitude constraint) information. The same behavior also occurs with airway routings; the ICAO flight plan and FlyQ Nav Log will show each point to point of the airway instead of the entry point - airway  exit point format.

As far as I can tell, the FlyQ database does not contain any published holding information. That information is very easy to reference in FlyQ by viewing the respective chart; however, that chart information is just part of a picture file; not identifiable database information that is searchable or linked to waypoint or procedure information.

I too would love to see SA develop their underlying nav database information to rival Jeppesen's current nav database with ATC/VHF/NAV frequencies, approach, hold, SID/STAR, and airway data (lateral and vertical) to give the IFD's and their users a useful data provider choice. I just don't believe at this point SA is close to achieving the depth of a nav database needed to make the IFD's as feature rich as we currently enjoy with Jeppesen's nav database.



Back to Top
AviSteve View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Location: Melbourne, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 590
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 9:31pm
Originally posted by 94S 94S wrote:

I've read that before, but when I open FlyQ I see all of the nav data, terrain and obstacles in addition to the charts.  It is not just a chart viewer.  FlyQ would not be an EFB if it didn't have the other data.  So, my conclusion is that SA has all the data the IFD needs, it's just maybe not in a compatible format, which is something that can change if the wheel squeaks loud and long enough.

As for the outside the US issue, I know SA has recently added Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean and have said they are working on the rest.  Someday that argument will go away.

David
The fact that FlyQ uses nav data and obstacles has no bearing on Seattle Avionics' ability to be a supplier of that data to avionics manufacturers.  Skyvector also uses nav data.  I don't hear anyone saying that we should use Skyvector as the source for IFD nav data.  The same arguments would apply.
Steve Lindsley
Avidyne Engineering
Back to Top
MysticCobra View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 514
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MysticCobra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 9:47pm
Originally posted by dmtidler dmtidler wrote:

I've been an avid user of the FlyQ suite of products for my GA flying for over four years. While it is a robust tool and appears to have an exhaustive collection of airport, navaid, and fix data in its US / North American database that make it an excellent efb; it doesn't appear to have the depth of connections to tie those points of information together that Jeppesen has developed and the IFD's need to make them full featured. <snip>

There's some apples-to-oranges going on here.  The limitations in FlyQ you describe are a function of the EFB itself, not the data.  Other EFBs (for example, iFlyGPS) allow IFR arrivals and approaches to be added to the flight plan, with all waypoints and relevant altitude restrictions included.

Regardless, that doesn't mean that iFlyGPS can be a supplier of navdata products to Avidyne GPS boxes.
Back to Top
AviSteve View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Location: Melbourne, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 590
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 9:49pm
Please don't interpret my posts on this subject as any kind of disparaging remarks regarding Seattle Avionics.  They are a good company and they have an excellent product in FlyQ.  We're happy to have them as partners using our WiFi connectivity.  I've spoken many times personally to Steve Podradchik and we get along quite well.

My only point here is that SA is not a supplier of nav data and obstacles to avionics suppliers.  They do supply chart data.  It's just a complicated process to integrate charts from another supplier into the IFD software and we're not prepared to embark on such an effort at this point.
Steve Lindsley
Avidyne Engineering
Back to Top
LANCE View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 06 Dec 2014
Location: TEXAS
Status: Offline
Points: 253
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote LANCE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 10:55pm
I had an outstanding experience updating my subscription with Bonnie Jurus of Jeppesen today at Oshkosh. Great attention to detail. She allowed me to get a 440 package for my 550 since I don't use the charts. She gave me free months of service for being a loyal customer and gave me her e-mail address to contact her if I ever have any issues. On top of that she gave me a VIP pass to watch the airshow from the rooftop lounge of the Boeing building. One of the best customer experiences I've ever had with any company.

Edited by LANCE - 23 Jul 2018 at 10:56pm
Back to Top
Bob H View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Jan 2018
Location: NH - KMHT
Status: Offline
Points: 135
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Bob H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2018 at 9:32am
Originally posted by LANCE LANCE wrote:

I had an outstanding experience updating my subscription with Bonnie Jurus of Jeppesen today at Oshkosh. Great attention to detail. She allowed me to get a 440 package for my 550 since I don't use the charts. She gave me free months of service for being a loyal customer and gave me her e-mail address to contact her if I ever have any issues. On top of that she gave me a VIP pass to watch the airshow from the rooftop lounge of the Boeing building. One of the best customer experiences I've ever had with any company.
I have delt with Bonnie several times myself.  She is great and represents the best of Jeppesen.

In regard to slingshot, I'm just not understanding the value for the IFD units.  It is now so fast and trivial to load data through the USB FOB, I don't see any meaningful efficiency gains by doing it via WiFi.  I also think there is reliability value in using a wired connection with known good files to upload to the IFD.  I always upload my data during my startup for a flight.  The upload is done and unit re-booted even before I can get past the warm-up and pre-takeoff checklist.  Loading the FOB at home might take all of 2 minutes.  The IFDs just don't have the problem that Slingshot is trying to address.  Then there is the whole issue of completely re-designing the current WiFi architecture, which will add to software bloat.  My philosophy here is:  "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."  Unintended consequences are the bain of many seemingly great ideas.
Bob
Back to Top
MysticCobra View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 514
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MysticCobra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2018 at 3:05pm
I think I was on the phone once with Bonnie.  I expressed my dissatisfaction with the business side of Jepp, and she was shocked...shocked that a customer would feel that way.  Said it was the first time she'd *ever* heard a complaint.  <rolleyes>

We spent ~20 min on the phone with her trying to figure out how to give me a bundle for my 540 that did not include the charts without being about the same price as the bundle with the charts.  "I see one for the 440, but not the 540," she said.  Put me on hold several times.  Tapped out a bunch of stuff on her computer several times.  Eventually said, "I'm going to get this fixed for you.  Hold off on your renewal, and I'll call you back with a solution.  Might take a couple of weeks.  This is a personal challenge for me.  I'm going to prove to you that Jepp is a great company to do business with!"

That was about three months ago.  I'm still waiting for the callback.  My opinion of Jepp remains unchanged.  (And yes, about a month after the call with her, I called back, spoke to someone different, told them I wanted to change my subscription from the 540 bundle to the 440 bundle, he did it, and so now I have what I want.  That's thanks to folks on this forum, not Jepp.)
Back to Top
Bob H View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Jan 2018
Location: NH - KMHT
Status: Offline
Points: 135
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2018 at 8:49pm
Originally posted by MysticCobra MysticCobra wrote:

I think I was on the phone once with Bonnie.  I expressed my dissatisfaction with the business side of Jepp, and she was shocked...shocked that a customer would feel that way.  Said it was the first time she'd *ever* heard a complaint.  <rolleyes>

We spent ~20 min on the phone with her trying to figure out how to give me a bundle for my 540 that did not include the charts without being about the same price as the bundle with the charts.  "I see one for the 440, but not the 540," she said.  Put me on hold several times.  Tapped out a bunch of stuff on her computer several times.  Eventually said, "I'm going to get this fixed for you.  Hold off on your renewal, and I'll call you back with a solution.  Might take a couple of weeks.  This is a personal challenge for me.  I'm going to prove to you that Jepp is a great company to do business with!"

That was about three months ago.  I'm still waiting for the callback.  My opinion of Jepp remains unchanged.  (And yes, about a month after the call with her, I called back, spoke to someone different, told them I wanted to change my subscription from the 540 bundle to the 440 bundle, he did it, and so now I have what I want.  That's thanks to folks on this forum, not Jepp.)
I wouldn’t expect you to change your opinion based another’s experience.  Lots of folks on the forum have had frustrating experiences.  Others not so much.  However, I think tempering expectations might be in order.  I don’t expect a sales person to know that it is acceptable to sell a software product labeled for a 440 to someone with a 540.  There is a lot of software being sold for multiple manufacturers and models of products.  Sales people can’t know all the engineering nuances so they must stick to selling software designated for the specific box for which it is being ordered.  To do otherwise is to risk bricking someone’s GPS.  They can only sell based on the SW application description.  The beauty of this forum is that you were able to get the software info that you needed from those in the know and then go back to Jeppesen and ask a different question; namely sell me the 440 package instead of the 540 package, and you then immediately got what you wanted.
Bob
Back to Top
MysticCobra View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 514
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MysticCobra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2018 at 11:33pm
Originally posted by Bob H Bob H wrote:

However, I think tempering expectations might be in order.  I don’t expect a sales person to know that it is acceptable to sell a software product labeled for a 440 to someone with a 540.  There is a lot of software being sold for multiple manufacturers and models of products.  Sales people can’t know all the engineering nuances so they must stick to selling software designated for the specific box for which it is being ordered.
Believe me, with Jepp, my expectations are set extremely low.  However, Bonnie (I'm pretty sure that's the rep I spoke to) gave herself the challenge of changing my low opinion of Jepp, by promising to find a solution I'd be happy with "within a couple of weeks".  She was so full of sunshine about the situation that unicorns and rainbows were still coming out of my phone for 10 minutes after I hung up.

That was back in February (edit:  March, actually), and I'm still waiting for her to call me back.

I didn't fault her for not immediately solving my problem.  I am faulting her for telling me she's going to do something, and then leaving me in the wind.

Ain't no excuse for that.  Even if she'd eventually called me back and said, "Sorry, I tried, and I got nuthin'," it'd have been better than blowing smoke up my rear and walking away.


Edited by MysticCobra - 25 Jul 2018 at 11:17am
Back to Top
Bob H View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Jan 2018
Location: NH - KMHT
Status: Offline
Points: 135
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2018 at 12:15am
Originally posted by MysticCobra MysticCobra wrote:

Believe me, with Jepp, my expectations are set extremely low.  However, Bonnie (I'm pretty sure that's the rep I spoke to) gave herself the challenge of changing my low opinion of Jepp, by promising to find a solution I'd be happy with "within a couple of weeks".  She was so full of sunshine about the situation that unicorns and rainbows were still coming out of my phone for 10 minutes after I hung up.
ROTFL!
Originally posted by MysticCobra MysticCobra wrote:

That was back in February, and I'm still waiting for her to call me back.

I didn't fault her for not immediately solving my problem.  I am faulting her for telling me she's going to do something, and then leaving me in the wind.

Ain't no excuse for that.  Even if she'd eventually called me back and said, "Sorry, I tried, and I got nuthin'," it'd have been better than blowing smoke up my rear and walking away.
Couldn't agree more.  No excuse for the lack of follow-up
Bob
Back to Top
MysticCobra View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 514
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MysticCobra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2018 at 11:15am
Well, maybe one of you guys related this rant to Bonnie, because whaddya know--I just got an email from her!

She told me that one of you guys told her that the 440 data bundle (without the charts) will work on my 540, and "I was the first person she thought of."  (Good memory, after all this time...)
Back to Top
stevemas View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jul 2018
Location: Seattle WA
Status: Offline
Points: 2
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevemas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2018 at 11:22am
So I would love to see SA as a supplier to Avidyne for panel mount systems and using Slingshot as the delivery method makes perfect sense to me. I do agree that the data would have to be both Nav Data as well as the full approach data in order to 1) be fully compliant with FAA regulations regarding currency of panel mount systems for legally flying an approach and 2) to enable the use of all the features of the IFD panel mount devices - both 440 and 540.

Having competition is always a good thing and could help bring about changes to what is essentially a Jeppesen monopoly. Today Garmin is getting into this business and customers have the ability to source their data from Jeppesen or Garmin and today Garmin is generally a cheaper solution. Seems we could have the same and Avidyne just needs to work with quality suppliers like Seattle Avionics on the data formats etc. Ideally this then does save me a ton of money as today I pay SA for charts for my EFB and then I pay Jepp for essentially the same data.

I also believe that I need to pay Jepp twice as I have two panel mount systems and while I can load the same USB stick on both the license from Jeppesen is for a single device. I would love to be wrong here and cut my annual Jepp subscription in half but I would be even happier to cut it out completely and get the data from SA where I will already be paying as they have the top EFB product (in my opinion).
Steve Masters
Back to Top
Bob H View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Jan 2018
Location: NH - KMHT
Status: Offline
Points: 135
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2018 at 1:25pm
Hi Steve, 

Originally posted by stevemas stevemas wrote:

So I would love to see SA as a supplier to Avidyne for panel mount systems and using Slingshot as the delivery method makes perfect sense to me. I do agree that the data would have to be both Nav Data as well as the full approach data in order to 1) be fully compliant with FAA regulations regarding currency of panel mount systems for legally flying an approach and 2) to enable the use of all the features of the IFD panel mount devices - both 440 and 540.
Boy has this been beat to death here.  SA doesn’t have a certified product for certified GPS’s and they don’t do international.
Originally posted by stevemas stevemas wrote:

Having competition is always a good thing and could help bring about changes to what is essentially a Jeppesen monopoly.
Usually, but not always.  When there is a small customer base and multiple suppliers enter the market, they will have trouble covering their engineering costs and overhead, so will have to charge more due to lower market share.  There are also the extra costs of moving a non-certified product into a certified market.  SA’s pricing may no longer be so attractive.  Jeppesen’s monopoly is based on a strategic partnership with Avidyne who has worked to develop pricing and package options (granted within Jeppesen’s costing constraints).
Originally posted by stevemas stevemas wrote:

I also believe that I need to pay Jepp twice as I have two panel mount systems and while I can load the same USB stick on both the license from Jeppesen is for a single device. I would love to be wrong here and cut my annual Jepp subscription in half but I would be even happier to cut it out completely and get the data from SA where I will already be paying as they have the top EFB product (in my opinion).
License should be per aircraft not per box.  There is no need to pay for Jepp charts if you don’t want them.  Order the 440 bundle not the 540.  So, you should already be able to get most of what you want – single license per aircraft and not paying for Jepp charts.

Bob
Back to Top
stevemas View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jul 2018
Location: Seattle WA
Status: Offline
Points: 2
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevemas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2018 at 5:03pm
I have dual 440's so don't care about charts. Charts are on my iPAD and for the Pacific Northwest I have the Jepp subscription for my Avidyne EX5000 as I like having the charts for my normal flying region on the MFD as well.

I will double check with Jepp but in the past they wanted a subscription per radio as that was the only way to be able to program data cards for dual 430's that were in the plane before I recently upgraded to the dual 440 configuration.

My hope was that SA could be the source of approach data but that likely is locked up by Jepp regardless but if not.....
Steve Masters
Back to Top
Bob H View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Jan 2018
Location: NH - KMHT
Status: Offline
Points: 135
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Bob H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2018 at 7:36pm

Originally posted by stevemas stevemas wrote:

I have dual 440's so don't care about charts. Charts are on my iPAD and for the Pacific Northwest I have the Jepp subscription for my Avidyne EX5000 as I like having the charts for my normal flying region on the MFD as well.

I will double check with Jepp but in the past they wanted a subscription per radio as that was the only way to be able to program data cards for dual 430's that were in the plane before I recently upgraded to the dual 440 configuration.

My hope was that SA could be the source of approach data but that likely is locked up by Jepp regardless but if not.....
OK, you didn’t mention the EX5000 wrinkle.  I thought you didn’t need both Jepp & SA, so didn’t want to pay for both.  Rather, you want Avidyne to accommodate a different data platform so that you only have one subscription.  I’m a Jepp guy and have been for about 30 years.  One of the pluses for me in choosing Avidyne was that they use Jeppesen charts.  You’re an SA guy and bought Avidyne in spite of the fact that they use Jepp.  I think it’s a smart decision, but now you’re living with the consequences.  It’s locked up by Avidyne not Jeppesen.  This is how they chose to structure their Boxes.  You spoke with your dollars that this was acceptable.  I don’t know what your hope is based on, but based on the many, many, many discussions here, there is no chance that Avidyne is about to accommodate another data platform.  They are a small company with a small product portfolio, but with what I consider to be the best GA GPS on the market.  They just don’t have the resources or the bandwidth for this.  With Jepp, they get to market their product worldwide.  It seems to be a no-brainer business case for them. 

As far as subscriptions for dual 440s are concerned, it isn’t just a Jeppesen decision.  Avidyne has worked with Jeppesen on pricing and package options.  When forum members encountered issues with Jeppesen, Avidyne stepped in and worked those out with Jeppesen.  I don’t know how Garmin worked with Jeppesen on dual 430s, but you should find it is different with the 440s.

Bob
Back to Top
Cruiser View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2017
Location: Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 58
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cruiser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2018 at 7:29pm
what package does Jepp offer for the NavData?

I just got an invoice from Jepp for 
NavData IFR Coverage Avidyne IFD440 Full USA
and 
NavData IFR Coverage Avidyne IFD540 Full USA

are you guys suggesting these are the same?
Can I use the IFD440 Navdata in the IFD540?

thanks,
Back to Top
brou0040 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 605
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brou0040 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2018 at 9:35pm
I assume the 440 bundle would include obstacles and terrain.

http://jeppdirect.jeppesen.com/legal/flitepak/avidyne-ifd540/flitepak.jsp

What would be nice to know is how much extra are they charging for the bundle over the navdata.  Terrain doesn't change much so the price would need to be compelling to pay extra just for the obstacles.
Back to Top
AviSteve View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Location: Melbourne, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 590
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2018 at 10:28pm
Originally posted by Cruiser Cruiser wrote:

what package does Jepp offer for the NavData?

I just got an invoice from Jepp for 
NavData IFR Coverage Avidyne IFD440 Full USA
and 
NavData IFR Coverage Avidyne IFD540 Full USA

are you guys suggesting these are the same?
Can I use the IFD440 Navdata in the IFD540?

thanks,
Yes, those two are the same.
Steve Lindsley
Avidyne Engineering
Back to Top
LANCE View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 06 Dec 2014
Location: TEXAS
Status: Offline
Points: 253
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LANCE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2018 at 11:49pm
Originally posted by MysticCobra MysticCobra wrote:

Well, maybe one of you guys related this rant to Bonnie, because whaddya know--I just got an email from her!

She told me that one of you guys told her that the 440 data bundle (without the charts) will work on my 540, and "I was the first person she thought of."  (Good memory, after all this time...)

I told her about the 440 charts working with the 540 when I was at the booth on Monday and she was thrilled to hear that and after that sent me an e-mail asking me to send her back the results once I updated because she wanted to be able to let others know about this. Of course I did that as soon as I updated. I'm not surprised she e-mailed you once she verified that it could be done. 

She was outstanding. After a nice conversion while she was working on my subscription, without me asking, she gave me a laser cut VIP Boeing tag which gave me access to their upper lounge and outside deck to watch airshows right at the front of the flight line. 


Edited by LANCE - 27 Jul 2018 at 10:15am
Back to Top
210 Driver View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 28 Jan 2014
Location: Alberta, CAN
Status: Offline
Points: 30
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 210 Driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 11:36pm
Hey Mystic, I have an IFD540, but haven't downloaded any NavData for a couple years. We are flying to BVI shortly. Imagine my surprise when I went to the Jepp website, and am unable to see any data package pricing!
I emailed, and apparently they only "quote" over the phone or on email now. Sounds fishy as hell.
 
I would like to get a package, probably don't need the charts, as I have them on FF. Did you have any operational issues with using the 440 NavData, terrain, obstacles on your 540? If it is actually that much cheaper I would like to try it.
 
Rob
Back to Top
AZ Flyer View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Status: Offline
Points: 72
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AZ Flyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2019 at 12:48am
I can confirm that there are no issues using the 440 bundle on the 540.  Just don't confuse the rep by telling them you have a 540 or that might throw them off track (I've heard of different results from different reps when that is done).  And their website ordering, at least for Avidyne bundle packages, hasn't worked for quite a while now so don't be put off by that.

Edited by AZ Flyer - 12 Mar 2019 at 12:49am
Back to Top
AviSteve View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Location: Melbourne, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 590
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2019 at 7:55am
440 and 540 nav data are exactly the same.
Steve Lindsley
Avidyne Engineering
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.121 seconds.