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Connecting with an NGT 9000

Printed From: Avidyne
Category: Avidyne General
Forum Name: IFD 5 Series & IFD 4 Series Touch Screen GPS/NAV/COM
Forum Description: Topics on Avidyne's IFD 5 Series and IFD 4 Series Touch Screen GPS/NAV/COM
URL: http://forums.avidyne.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=849
Printed Date: 28 Mar 2024 at 6:30pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Connecting with an NGT 9000
Posted By: frank27
Subject: Connecting with an NGT 9000
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2015 at 11:32am

Can the IFD 440/540 accept (and display) ADS-B traffic and weather data from the L-3 Lynx NGT-9000?

If not currently, are there plans to add that functionality in the future (which can be discussed here)?





Replies:
Posted By: AviSimpson
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2015 at 4:01pm
Currently, the IFD's do not communicate with the Lynx system. It could be something that we add in the future but it hasn't been discussed on the road map as of late. I will add it to the feature request list if it hasn't been done so.

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Simpson Bennett
Avidyne Corporation
Product Manager


Posted By: frank27
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2015 at 4:23pm

Thank you for responding.

I was curious because there is a progression that would appear to make the answer, "yes":

- The NavWorx ADS600-B web site speaks of an Arinc 429 option to allow ADS-B data to be viewed on the Garmin 400/500 series and Avidyne EX500 boxes.  That implies that the Garmin boxes understand Arinc 429 messages which are carrying ADS-B data.
- The IFDs are supposed to be slide-in replacements with all the interfaces on the Garmin 400/500.
- The L-3 NGT-9000 generates Arinc 429 messages.

I don't know enough about Arinc 429 label compatibility, but in a round-about way I thought it would just work magically, out of the box.

Back to reality.  :(




Posted By: pilotgeek
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2015 at 7:47pm
Originally posted by frank27 frank27 wrote:

- The NavWorx ADS600-B web site speaks of an Arinc 429 option to allow ADS-B data to be viewed on the Garmin 400/500 series and Avidyne EX500 boxes.  That implies that the Garmin boxes understand Arinc 429 messages which are carrying ADS-B data.

- The IFDs are supposed to be slide-in replacements with all the interfaces on the Garmin 400/500.
- The L-3 NGT-9000 generates Arinc 429 messages.


I seem to recall that the IFDs are not yet actually doing ADSB traffic.  Rather they receive ARINC 735 traffic via ARINC 429.  As it happens, that is what the NGT series outputs as well (because that is the [legacy] ARINC standard for traffic).  You would need to check the NGTs STC to see if it is a legal connection though.

Note that all of the neato ADS-B traffic features will probably be missing on any 735 box, as the required symbology falls short of what can be done with ADS-B (vector, speed, etc).

Regards,
Neal


Posted By: Bad1996
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2015 at 10:19pm
Originally posted by AviSimpson AviSimpson wrote:

Currently, the IFD's do not communicate with the Lynx system. It could be something that we add in the future but it hasn't been discussed on the road map as of late. I will add it to the feature request list if it hasn't been done so.


Please do. I'm ready to do the Lynx box but I also want it to display (correctly) on my 540. One reason I went 540 is because it was supposed to talk to everyone else's boxes.......or will in the future. My avionics guy said it would now but I was wondering if it would be just the limited data like the post above talks about. Thanks


Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2015 at 10:02am
We are engaged with L3 on the topic.  There are a number of issues still to work through so it's not clear when and if we'll have this all worked out.


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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com


Posted By: clydeps
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2015 at 4:36pm
I have an NGT9000+ installed with dual GNS430Ws and EX5000C MFD. I get traffic on all of these from the NGT just as I did from the Skywatch installed previously. ADS-B targets are displayed (if in range) but without the additional data i.e. callsign, track and groundspeed, that is shown on the NGT.

I see no reason why the IFDs won't work the same as the 430s in this respect. The NGT just looks like Skywatch, which is supported.

The NGT already sends the additional ADS-B data in ARINC 735B DTIF packets, so hopefully at some point Avidyne will implement that. In the meantime it's perfectly usable.


Posted By: Bad1996
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2015 at 12:17am
L3 says it will work too but won't display the latest/best ADSB symbology (currently) I have a pic of it displaying on a G box and both have the altitude related to your aircraft but the G is not showing direction of the traffic, 9000 box is showing direction. When I say direction, I'm speaking of the 9000 having the arrow symbol compared to the little square on the G.


Posted By: Bad1996
Date Posted: 25 Dec 2015 at 11:07pm
How's the communication with L3 ? Getting a jump on this before the 530 folks do would be a plus ! My 9000 is at the avionics shop, waiting on me now.


Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 26 Dec 2015 at 10:03am
Working on it but moving at about the pace of frozen pond water.  Don't know how it will turn out at this point.


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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com


Posted By: skitheo
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2016 at 7:47pm
Add my voice to the cacophony clamoring for IFD/NGT9000 integration. I have both of them going in to my plane very soon, and would like to see weather and traffic simultaneously. 

While we're at it: 
 - Android EFB integration for flight planning exchange, GPS data, etc.
 - JPI EDM 830 / 900 GPS data to, fuel data from (I believe this is already implemented)


Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2016 at 8:00pm
Originally posted by skitheo skitheo wrote:

 - JPI EDM 830 / 900 GPS data to, fuel data from (I believe this is already implemented)

Yes, that is fully implemented.

Although I can't know first hand, every indication is that good EFB app support is imminent.

* Orest



Posted By: gsengle
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2016 at 8:23pm
I would think the people who are installing the L3 Lynx are exactly your customer!  (I have one, and a 530) in my '96 Ovation. I would put in the 540 now if the integration were good.  By all accounts the Lynx unit is very successful, and you'd want to piggy-back on that market - people who are willing to consider solutions other than Garmin. So, please please please, make this integration good, and I'll buy a 540 tomorrow :)


Posted By: Apiaguy
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2016 at 8:11pm
I have the Lynx... I have an EX600 and soon to have the IFD540... the 600 displays the traffic from the lynx and I assume will display it on the 540 as the 530 does.
+1 me for more communication between the devices.


Posted By: Bad1996
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2016 at 1:09am
Originally posted by Apiaguy Apiaguy wrote:



I have the Lynx... I have an EX600 and soon to have the IFD540... the 600 displays the traffic from the lynx and I assume will display it on the 540 as the 530 does.
+1 me for more communication between the devices.


It will display it like the 530, that is the problem. If everyone had thier $hit in one sack so to speak, the 540 would correctly display targets. Right now you get no direction on the target and I think it is also lacking some more info.
I know it takes time but potential customers like Gsengle are there for the taking. It would benefit Avidyne to move quickly on this.

L3 has told me they are ready and willing, if they are the problem please let me (and others) know so we can light a fire.
My shop just installed a Lynx in a (I think) Bonanza with twin 540's, mine goes in this week for annual and the Lynx. Next week my buddies 182 with a 540 goes in for a Lynx.


Posted By: Apiaguy
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2016 at 12:16pm
Yes, I realize they don't communicate very well yet.  Hopefully they will also be able to integrate the adsb weather somehow.


Posted By: glassanza
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2016 at 12:52pm
I have two 540’s in my Bonanza and was in the process of installing a 340 + MLB100 during a recent engine overhaul when my shop made me a deal on the Lynx I just could not pass up. Although on paper it is not the best long term choice it was a great short term choice for the money. I really wanted traffic and as an early 540 pre-buy guy didn’t want to wait indefinitely for traffic on my 540 since I was giving up TIS traffic that I was getting on my G600 from my G330 (not perfect but better than nothing). The 340 would have put traffic on my IPad (with Stratus) but I really didn’t what to have to drag it out every flight. The Lynx gives me TAS traffic on my G600 PDF and ADS-B traffic and weather on the transponder itself. In my set up the 540 does not talk to the Lynx but I know that going in. Back to the point of the post, if Avidyne and L-3 would work together I believe both would benefit from pairing up the IFD (which I love) with the Lynx (which I also love). I believe L-3 is going to sell a lot of transponders based on reviews and my personal experience…  

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GDC25


Posted By: Joe Jet
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2016 at 9:25pm
As I've said elsewhere, Avidyne should just make a competitor to the Lynxx 9000, but with a larger display and no GPS.

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A36 w/IFD 540, PA60 w/IFD 540


Posted By: skitheo
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2016 at 9:53pm
Any movement on the integration front?


Posted By: AviSimpson
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2016 at 10:55am
Originally posted by skitheo skitheo wrote:

Any movement on the integration front?
No. Discussions between the companies are ongoing.


-------------
Simpson Bennett
Avidyne Corporation
Product Manager


Posted By: Bad1996
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 1:07am
Originally posted by AviSimpson AviSimpson wrote:

Originally posted by skitheo skitheo wrote:

Any movement on the integration front?


No. Discussions between the companies are ongoing.




Who would "the" L3 guy talk with at Avidyne to get this ball rolling ? Both sides have said "hey, we're ready"
I don't know which company would be the hold up but, but, but........ Avidyne sells transponders too and L3 doesn't sell (comparable) GPS boxes.
So, you can guess which way I am leaning...if not true, prove me wrong.

Avidyne always said, we will work with anyone and everybody. That's one of the reasons I replaced my G with a 540. So I do, expect Avidyne to play nice.

Two answers above.
1. Working on it but slow.
2. No discussions.

I'm no rocket scientist but we have two different answers. Neither suits a lot of us.
If the issue is with L3 just let me know, there are a bunch of folks ready to light a fire.
Thanks


Posted By: Bad1996
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 1:24am
Originally posted by gsengle gsengle wrote:

I would think the people who are installing the L3 Lynx are exactly your customer!  (I have one, and a 530) in my '96 Ovation. I would put in the 540 now if the integration were good.  By all accounts the Lynx unit is very successful, and you'd want to piggy-back on that market - people who are willing to consider solutions other than Garmin. So, please please please, make this integration good, and I'll buy a 540 tomorrow :)


And this is why it would benefit Avidyne ^^^^^^^^


Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 6:31am
The two Presidents are talking. That's as good as you're going to get.

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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com


Posted By: skitheo
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 1:08pm
My I further emphasize Bad1996 and Gsengle's point: A major selling point of the Avidyne system is that it's an alternative to Garmin offers open architecture. Money, mouth and all that.


Posted By: glassanza
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 6:34pm
"Two Presidents walk into a bar" nothing get done... I'm watching way too much Fox News!

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GDC25


Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 6:37pm
And apparently you are bugging the phone lines between us and L3......

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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com


Posted By: glassanza
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 6:49pm
I agree with Bad1996, if it's on L3 Let us know, we will blow up their phones until we get some action. Luckily we don't have to do that with Avidyne and this forum is very very appreciated.  

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GDC25


Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 6:53pm
Let's let it play out.

In the meantime, we do NOT make any claims to having a functional integration between the IFDs and the L3 units.


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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com


Posted By: glassanza
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2016 at 3:18pm
Roger. Standing down on the speed dial button...

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GDC25


Posted By: Bad1996
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2016 at 11:54am
Thanks Steve. Need any help on the L3 side please let us know. Will try not to bother you too often :-)
High hopes though !

Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

Let's let it play out.

In the meantime, we do NOT make any claims to having a functional integration between the IFDs and the L3 units.



Posted By: Catani
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2016 at 4:28pm
After setting the Main ARINC 429 Config "In 2" to "High' speed and "Traffic Advisory" data, I found my IFD440 displays traffic provided by my L3 Lynx 9000+.  Since the 9000+ includes Skywatch functionality, perhaps this is not surprising.  The IFD440 does not display the 9000+ ADS-B weather, however.


Posted By: Bad1996
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2016 at 10:05pm
Originally posted by Catani Catani wrote:

After setting the Main ARINC 429 Config "In 2" to "High' speed and "Traffic Advisory" data, I found my IFD440 displays traffic provided by my L3 Lynx 9000+.  Since the 9000+ includes Skywatch functionality, perhaps this is not surprising.  The IFD440 does not display the 9000+ ADS-B weather, however.


I'm not sure what you mean by "in 2" but that might be obvious when I look. My 540 is set to High on the traffic. I also changed a setting in the Lynx (recommended by L3) and it made mine give the traffic sensor error all the time. I changed that back and it is back to an intermittent error.
I assume you aren't seeing any error messages ?
It's aggrivating that folks with 530's are seeing the traffic with no issues.


Posted By: Gring
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2016 at 10:51pm
There are two ARINC IN ports, so I think he is saying his second port is connected to the Lynx and therefore where he is changing the settings.


Posted By: Bad1996
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 12:22am
Is there a "traffic advisory" in each of the two ARINC IN ports ? L3 had also told me to check for "high" at the traffic advisory but I didn't look farther than the first one I saw. He figured though, that since I was seeing traffic part time that the 540 was set correctly. Unfortunately the change he wanted done to the NGT9000 just made it worse.
It's such a great opportunity for Avidyne to leap frog Garmin once again if they would talk 100%. I know folks just waiting for these two boxes to talk and they would dump the G in a heartbeat.


Posted By: DavidBunin
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2016 at 4:04pm
The IFD-540 has two ARINC 429 input ports.  Each port has two settings.

One setting is the data speed (Hi/Lo).
One setting is the data type.  Many possible selections.  "Traffic Advisory" is one of them  See section 7.5.2 of the installation manual.

It doesn't help to configure Port #1 correctly if your unit is wired into port #2.

David Bunin


Posted By: Catani
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2016 at 5:36pm
Originally posted by DavidBunin DavidBunin wrote:

The IFD-540 has two ARINC 429 input ports.  Each port has two settings.

One setting is the data speed (Hi/Lo).
One setting is the data type.  Many possible selections.  "Traffic Advisory" is one of them  See section 7.5.2 of the installation manual.

It doesn't help to configure Port #1 correctly if your unit is wired into port #2.

David Bunin

Exactly.  The IFD440, being a plug-in replacement, has traffic set to the #2 ARINC port because that's how the 430 it replaced was wired.

However, I have found that traffic from the 9000+ is intermittent.  It works on some flights, and on others it doesn't, giving "Traffic Sensor Failure" alerts that cannot be permanently cancelled.  You either press CLR two or three times per minute, or just ignore it.  I've decided to disable the traffic function until Avidyne and L3 work out the issues.


Posted By: Bad1996
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2016 at 12:52am
So your 9000+ is acting the same way. I have been talking with L3 and today we tried the new software (approved two weeks ago by faa) and it did not help. It did solve a problem with another box so we had high hopes. Also tried another config change: TIF on the CDTI output instead of both, that seemed to be worse. Tried that on the old and new software.
Mine always starts out good but gets worse as time goes by. Due to seeing more traffic after 10-15 minutes or ?? I don't know.

I see what you are talking about regarding the In1 and In2, I have not tried traffic advisory on the In2 assuming that is a selection. Mine is currently set to low/off.

One case that the G 530 works and my 540 won't, Bummer.


Posted By: DavidBunin
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2016 at 10:56am
Recently, a forum participant had an intermittent data issue on his IFD540 that turned out to be an IFD that didn't seat fully in the rack.  That is not the sort of thing that I would think to troubleshoot online here, but maybe a real-world look would detect the issue.

David Bunin


Posted By: Bad1996
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2016 at 9:52pm
That theory is not a bad one and I'll tell you why. My 540 has twice had com issues. On the first install and then recently when it was out for the Lynx install. Both times a simple pull out and reinstall solved the problem. That doesn't sound bad but it has only been out twice.
Why ? The only thing I can figure is that the 530 rack isn't quite perfect for the 540 (I would hope a true 540 rack would not need to be reseated everytime.
There seems to be a lot, or maybe even all Lynx/Avidyne airplanes with this issue so a seat problem doesn't sound right. Could it be a rack issue, 530 rack vs 540 ? I would like to know if ANY Avidyne/Lynx Combo actually work.

L3 says that the 9000+ seems to work correctly and now we hear from Catani his isn't working either.


Posted By: Apiaguy
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2016 at 10:23pm
I have the 9000 and an avidyne ex600... The 600 has no trouble with the traffic from the 9000. Funny thing is we couldnt get my 530 to display the traffic... 540 is going in as we speak...will see what it produces


Posted By: Catani
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 3:06am
Originally posted by Apiaguy Apiaguy wrote:

I have the 9000 and an avidyne ex600... The 600 has no trouble with the traffic from the 9000.  

My Avidyne EX5000C MFD also has no problem reliably displaying the traffic from the 9000+.


Posted By: DavidBunin
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 12:03pm
Quote The only thing I can figure is that the 530 rack isn't quite perfect for the 540


Some of it depends on the other equipment and how well the racks are spaced at installation.  For example, my IFD fits tight against the transponder below it, but has good clearance with the radio above.  For whatever reason, it is easier to install the IFD first and the transponder second.  Much harder to install the IFD if the transponder is already fully racked.

I have the real Avidyne 540 rack.  I never had a GNS unit installed.  There is plenty of room where the transponder could have been a fraction of an inch lower, but I used some clean existing holes rather than elongate them in the rails.

David Bunin


Posted By: Catani
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2016 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

Let's let it play out.

In the meantime, we do NOT make any claims to having a functional integration between the IFDs and the L3 units.

Steve -- Your new IFD 10.2.0.0 software release notice states in the first paragraph "Added support for multiple options on the IFD series to include: ... i.  Capstone compliant ADS-B receivers."

According to an L3 technical support rep I spoke with today, the L3 Lynx NGT 9000 is "capstone compliant."  Your release notice suggests that the IFD boxes can now display ADS-B traffic from the (supposedly) capstone-compliant NGT 9000.  Does that mean the discussions between L3 and Avidyne were successful in resolving the reasons the IFD boxes could not display ADS-B traffic and weather coming from an NGT 9000?  If the discussions did not resolve anything, would you nevertheless expect the 10.2.0.0 software changes would allow the IFD's to display ADS-B traffic and weather data from the NGT 9000 anyway?


Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2016 at 9:19pm
Originally posted by Catani Catani wrote:

Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

Let's let it play out.

In the meantime, we do NOT make any claims to having a functional integration between the IFDs and the L3 units.

Steve -- Your new IFD 10.2.0.0 software release notice states in the first paragraph "Added support for multiple options on the IFD series to include: ... i.  Capstone compliant ADS-B receivers."

According to an L3 technical support rep I spoke with today, the L3 Lynx NGT 9000 is "capstone compliant."  Your release notice suggests that the IFD boxes can now display ADS-B traffic from the (supposedly) capstone-compliant NGT 9000.  Does that mean the discussions between L3 and Avidyne were successful in resolving the reasons the IFD boxes could not display ADS-B traffic and weather coming from an NGT 9000?  If the discussions did not resolve anything, would you nevertheless expect the 10.2.0.0 software changes would allow the IFD's to display ADS-B traffic and weather data from the NGT 9000 anyway?

No, the discussions were not successful.   We continue to find out that there is no such thing as a single "Capstone compliant standard".  Every single vendor and device is different.   At this point, we can make no claims of supporting the L3 Lynx.   Maybe it will work, maybe it won't - we don't know.


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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com


Posted By: glassanza
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2016 at 7:34pm
I love my 540 that replaced a 530, no comparison with regard to capability and ease of use. At the time of my install the NGT 9000 appeared to have an advantage over the Avidyne products available and I chose to go down that path and have no regrets. I have had traffic and weather from the NGT 9000 for over a year problem free, I am confident I have been flying safer and smarter since the install. At the time of my install the Avidyne ADS-B products were not working well and from postings here still seam to have issues. If I have to install another Avidyne product down the road to take advantage software upgrades to the 540 I will likely get my checkbook out again, however, as a long time member here I would suggest limiting the marketing bait so your customers can make better decisions with regard to manufacturer compatibility (or lack of).    

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GDC25


Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2016 at 8:14pm
Jake:

Remember some time back you said y'all would try displaying the MLB products on the Aspen MFD?

Did that happen?  

David


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David Gates


Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2016 at 5:05pm
No it didn't for 10.2 for scope control reasons. If I recall too, the Aspen datalink box only has one 232 port and therefore can't display on multiple devices at same time.

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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com


Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2016 at 6:29pm
Thanks Jake.

Not sure why that would be, i.e. if Aspen purports to display its own ADS-B TIS and FIS, aside from software incompatibility, why couldn't the MLB be the source just the same?

Not that I understand any of this stuff; I learned to program in FORTRAN, and used punch cards.


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David Gates


Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2016 at 6:34pm
Oh I misinterpreted your question. I thought you were asking if we could display the Aspen datalink on our boxes.

But what I think you asked is if Aspen would display MLB100 (now called SkyTrax 100) output on their displays. If that was the question then my answer is "beats me". I haven't explicitly spoken with Aspen about their plans for quite some time. We certainly have no problem with that and happy to share whatever data they need or want.

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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com


Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2016 at 8:03pm
From Charles Reiche, who I know from the Beechtalk:
Quote:

As of now, The MLB is not fully compatible with the Aspen systems.  I believe that the box is built by NavWorx and they claim the ability to send 429 traffic only out of the ADS 600 box

http://www.navworx.com/PDFs/Evolution-EFD-block.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.navworx.com/PDFs/Evolution-EFD-block.pdf     This has not been tested by our engineers and not certified as an approved interface.  You should verify with Avidyne if their box sends out the standard type of ARINC traffic format that our display takes (the same as their TAS traffic systems).  So for now it appears that you could at least send traffic, but again, not tested on our end.

Adding software capabilities and features (ADS-B Weather) from other manufactures receivers is in large part market driven and controlled by the availability of our software engineers to work with theirs to develop an interface.   We are all here at Sun N Fun and will walk over to talk to Avidyne’s people tomorrow morning and see if we can find any more info on the possibilities of displaying their products on our display.


Best Regards,

 

Charlie Reiche

Field Service Enginee



So there you have it, and you are both in Lakeland.


 David





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David Gates


Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2016 at 8:10pm
I don't buy it. And I'm back in Boston as of 5 min ago.

We'll get it all worked out.

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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com


Posted By: glassanza
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2016 at 6:12pm
Looks like this topic got hijacked, please ddgates or AviJake create a new topic to address the Aspen issue you two are discussing. To get back on track, Jake I don't guess you ran into any L-3 guys in FL wanting to discuss the Lynx and 540 issue initially raised here.

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GDC25


Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2016 at 6:20pm
sorry

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David Gates


Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2016 at 8:15pm
Originally posted by glassanza glassanza wrote:

Looks like this topic got hijacked, please ddgates or AviJake create a new topic to address the Aspen issue you two are discussing. To get back on track, Jake I don't guess you ran into any L-3 guys in FL wanting to discuss the Lynx and 540 issue initially raised here.


Oh we definitely spoke with L3 about it at the show. The L3 rep used to work for us and she was very interested in getting the boxes to play well together. She will be relentless...

But the people who took the chance/risk to purchase and install a Lynx before we declared compatibility are all seeing issues and problems.

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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com


Posted By: skitheo
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2016 at 8:00pm
As one of those "risk takers" I'm looking forward to you and L-3 getting it worked out. They're both great boxes. Took first flight last night. FltPlan Go connected to NGT to get all of the traffic and weather. Will try it out again tomorrow, likely. 


Posted By: Catani
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2016 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

 Oh we definitely spoke with L3 about it at the show. The L3 rep used to work for us and she was very interested in getting the boxes to play well together. She will be relentless...

Steve or Simpson:  Any progress to report on the effort between Avidyne and L3 to have the Lynx weather and traffic appear on the IFD boxes?  I hope Ms. Relentless is making it happen.


Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2016 at 3:09pm
She's good. She's trying to get an IFD for the L3 crew to do some testing on. All of our development boxes are in full use now for the 10.2 testing but she (and us) will find a way to make it happen.

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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com


Posted By: Bad1996
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 10:33pm
Tell them I'm still here to test (more) :-)


Posted By: Bad1996
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2016 at 10:43pm
Originally posted by Bad1996 Bad1996 wrote:

Tell them I'm still here to test (more) :-)


YO :-)


Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 8:42am
Some progress has been made.  It would appear that the two companies have worked out the business-to-business issues (thanks to the persistence of the L3 rep) and now we are waiting on the data protocol documentation from L3.

I have a meeting set up at Oshkosh (again, thanks to the persistence of the L3 rep) with the L3 Lynx Product Manager so we'll see what further progress we can make there will be.

In any case, the train has long left the station for Rel 10.2 so Lynx support is not included there.


-------------
Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com


Posted By: TangoCharlie
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2016 at 11:05am
That's great news, thanks.  We're pretty happy with our recent IFD and Lynx upgrade, but we'd be even happier if they were on speaking terms...

-------------
--Mark M


Posted By: Catani
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2016 at 12:26pm
I hope you're able to make good progress at Oshkosh with L3, Steve.  It would be great to have L3's products working with Avidyne's seemlessly again, as was the case when both were OEM with Cirrus years ago.


Posted By: Bad1996
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 8:09pm
Good news for all !


Posted By: BobsV35B
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2016 at 7:55pm
Open question not really applicable to this discussion,  but something I would like to know. Can two WAAS GPS units get their input signals from the same antenna the way we do with the VHF nav signal? I have two GPS antenns on my airplane now and am thinking of adding an L3 Lynx. Hate to add a third GPS antenna up there.

Happy Skies.

Old Luddite Bob


-------------
Old Bob, Ancient Aviator


Posted By: Catani
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2016 at 9:48pm
Don't know about two GPSs on the same antenna.  But if you have a VHF stand alone antenna, you can replace it with an antenna that receives both GPS and VHF.  That way, you're not really adding an additional antenna, just upgrading the capabililties of one you already have.


Posted By: AzAv8r
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2016 at 10:26pm
My avionics shop told me GPS antenna splitters were  used with the Lynx and other equipment, including the IFD.  Won't save you much money since the splitters which will power an antenna aren't cheap.  But you won't be poking another hole in the skin of your airplane.



Posted By: BobsV35B
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2016 at 9:27am
Thanks Much!

Knew about the Combo VHF and GPS. Used one on Bob II's S35 with the Avidyne 540. Will check with my shop on the splitter. Thank you both.

Happy Skies,

Old Bob


-------------
Old Bob, Ancient Aviator


Posted By: AzAv8r
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2016 at 8:09pm
Since it is not clear from the earlier posts:
The 540 displays Lynx traffic, but not weather.  The traffic is delivered via the 429 bus.
On the 540:  Set the connected 429 port (#1 on our box) to "high speed", "Traffic Advisory".
On the L3:
-  Enable "CDTI" 
-  Set the traffic format to "TIF", NOT "DTIF"

I suspect a piece of the compatibility issue that AviJake mentioned is the fact that the NGT only delivers ADS-B via RS-422, and the IFD doesn't have 422.  The Aspen doesn't either, but 422 is essentially differential 232, so Aspen just connected one side.  It is possible the Avidyne just doesn't have enough noise immunity to do this, or doesn't want to verify it.  And the Aspen instructions for connecting in that manner disallow any non Aspen devices being connected.

Actually the NGT does deliver RS-232 ADS-B, but that is dedicated to their external WiFi transmitter.   I suspect that could be made to work just fine, but there is that whole approval consideration: both companies would probably need to assert (and prove) to the FAA that it was safe.






Posted By: Catani
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2016 at 8:41pm
Originally posted by AzAv8r AzAv8r wrote:

Since it is not clear from the earlier posts: The 540 displays Lynx traffic, but not weather.
AzAv8r:  Good info, thanks. Do you happen to know if (1) the traffic the Lynx puts on the 429 port is just TAS derived traffic, or only ADS-B ATAS traffic, or perhaps a combination of both? (2) Whether the traffic icons displayed on the IFD are the enhanced icons depicting info like direction and rate of climb/descent?  And (3) Whether this capability is limited to the 540, or extends also to the IFD440?  Thanks!


Posted By: AzAv8r
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2016 at 8:59pm
I can't answer about the 440, but I'd really expect it to work there also.

This was just setup yesterday and I've not test-flown it.  I've only have the basic Lynx (Mode-S / dual-band ADS-B in, no TAS, no diversity).  For the initial checkout I was sitting on the ground  getting ADS-B directly from aircraft, no ADS-B rebroadcast or TIS-B because of my altitude.

I'll do a test flight this weekend.  I know I'll be able to pick up an ADS-B Ground Station by the time I reach pattern altitude.

As others have suggested, only the TAS symbology though; not the newer "Asteroids" darts that ADS-B displays typically have.  


Posted By: Bad1996
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2016 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by AzAv8r AzAv8r wrote:

I can't answer about the 440, but I'd really expect it to work there also.

This was just setup yesterday and I've not test-flown it.  I've only have the basic Lynx (Mode-S / dual-band ADS-B in, no TAS, no diversity).  For the initial checkout I was sitting on the ground  getting ADS-B directly from aircraft, no ADS-B rebroadcast or TIS-B because of my altitude.

I'll do a test flight this weekend.  I know I'll be able to pick up an ADS-B Ground Station by the time I reach pattern altitude.

As others have suggested, only the TAS symbology though; not the newer "Asteroids" darts that ADS-B displays typically have.  


It will be interesting to see if you get the normal error message on the 540.
Personally after using the Lynx and the 540 both, It's not a huge deal to me that the traffic displays on the 540. That is due to my Lynx display being very visible. Like the iPad (Foreflight) it is cluttered with a LOT of stuff and makes traffic hard to see. Many times I will set the iPad to "street map" and then without internet it's basically a clear background and easy to see traffic.


Posted By: ac11
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2016 at 1:48am
I'm hoping this gets worked out as well. In a recent presentation by L3, L3 is claiming the NGT9000 will work with the 540 when 10.2 comes out. Since the NGT9000 sends traffic and weather to an Aspen, could the Aspen forward this data on to the 540?


Posted By: AzAv8r
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2016 at 8:47am
Alas, on my test flight I discovered the connection between the NGT and the IFD was intermittent, almost certainly a 429 pin or socket not fully inserted in the body of the connector.

That's why we do test flights.

But I'm pretty confident the TIS-B traffic was being displayed, since the quantity of targets appeared to jump dramatically at pattern altitude (where I was receiving the ADS-B ground station).  

Traffic "flickered" with the bad connection.  Traffic would be rendered for a second or so, then it would disappear and I'd get a traffic sensor failure message.   At random intervals it would reappear then disappear. 



Posted By: ac11
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2016 at 1:12pm
Did you get FIS-B weather at all on the 540?


Posted By: AzAv8r
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2016 at 8:52pm
No ADS-B weather.  The NGT sends the full set of ADS-B over the RS-422/RS-232 lines, but only the Traffic (in TAS format) over the ARINC-429.  I only have the ARINC connected (the RS422 goes to the Aspens).


Posted By: TangoCharlie
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2016 at 11:00am
Traffic "flickered" with the bad connection.  Traffic would be rendered for a second or so, then it would disappear and I'd get a traffic sensor failure message.   At random intervals it would reappear then disappear.

Unfortunately, I bet you don't have a loose connection.  This is the best behavior I was able to get out of trying to get traffic from the Lynx to the IFD540.  Traffic appears briefly, then a failure message, and this repeats every few minutes.   I am "Really Hoping" the IFD software is upgraded to make this compatible.  But I've had the setup for almost a year now, and from what I read here, even 10.2 won't provide Lynx compatibility.  We are thinking of replacing our second IFD with an MFD that will display things from other products.

But if you do get this working, I'm eager to hear; I've already given up hope (for 10.1.x anyway).



-------------
--Mark M


Posted By: Apiaguy
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2016 at 2:08pm
I had the traffic failure message for the first two flights after turning on the 9000 traffic to the 540...It would work for a while, then blitz for a few seconds then back on.... now I never get it (or almost never) and it works fine.  Never a problem for the ex600 displaying it... it's always correct.


Posted By: TangoCharlie
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2016 at 2:47pm
Originally posted by Apiaguy Apiaguy wrote:

I had the traffic failure message for the first two flights after turning on the 9000 traffic to the 540...It would work for a while, then blitz for a few seconds then back on.... now I never get it (or almost never) and it works fine.  Never a problem for the ex600 displaying it... it's always correct.


Interesting, thanks.  Do you fly in areas with high traffic density?  One thing I did notice is that when flying late at night or in areas with little traffic, it seems to work for longer periods of time. 

And, can you tell us the configuration settings you're using?


-------------
--Mark M


Posted By: AzAv8r
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2016 at 6:53pm
It worked reliably on the ground checkout (5 minutes?) the week before the test flight.  On the test flight, it worked for about two minutes after startup, and about the time I pushed the throttle forward to taxi out the failure appeared.  Since I was testing other work, I went ahead with the flight.  As I pulled off the runway after landing, the traffic reappeared and remained (no more failures during the taxi back to the hangar.)  The

The L3 had to be set to "TIF".  "DTIF" won't work (we tried).  The L3 can be set to "Both".   Someone at the airport suggested that using "Both" could cause failures also.  Perhaps that configuration can also cause intermittent traffic.


Posted By: skitheo
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2016 at 1:12am
Traffic Sensor Failure occurs many times when flying in the vicinity (80nm?) of PDX, SEA, et al. Not so much when not much traffic is visible to ADS-B receiver.


Posted By: Apiaguy
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2016 at 11:59am
yeah so most of my flights are in sparsly populated Idaho... I flew to Sacramento this weekend and got the traffic sensor failure all day long when near the major airspaces... Once headed away 80-100nm no more failures.


Posted By: skitheo
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2016 at 12:07pm
Does anyone know if this "traffic sensor failure" will be fixed in version 10.2? BTW,when will we get 10.2?


Posted By: skitheo
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2017 at 1:00am
Any news on the IFD540 connection to the L3 Lynx NGT9000? Orest, have you flown yet with 10.2?


Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2017 at 5:42am
Originally posted by skitheo skitheo wrote:

Any news on the IFD540 connection to the L3 Lynx NGT9000? Orest, have you flown yet with 10.2?

Frustratingly, my plane is down with a Mag problem, now going on three weeks.

* Orest



Posted By: Apiaguy
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2017 at 11:12am
an L3 guy just posted on beechtalk that the 9000 will now display traffic and weather on the ifd's...


Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2017 at 12:31pm
Do you have a link? That would be big news.

* Orest


Posted By: Apiaguy
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2017 at 12:36pm
https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=135509&start=45

Steve Rutherford was the poster... His post is vague as to the interconnectivity


Posted By: Apiaguy
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2017 at 5:20pm
and now he has confirmed that yes, the 9000 will interface via hard wire connection to the IFD to provide traffic and weather!  Awesome.. now have to schedule with avionics installer to get er hooked up!


Posted By: ac11
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2017 at 7:16pm
My installer said he was unable to have the Lynx connected to both the Aspen and the IFD540 at the same time. Does someone have this configuration working?

I opted to have the Lynx connected to the Aspen because the Lynx already has traffic callouts, and I can turn on/off traffic and/or weather on the Aspen at will. I don't see such options on the 540, and fear that I will have both the Lynx and the 540 sending out alerts at the same time.


Posted By: AzAv8r
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2017 at 8:33pm
The NGT9000 has an ARINC 429 output for traffic, and RS422 for traffic and weather.  RS422 is essentially a differential version of the RS232 interface.   Earlier Avidyne said the RS232 interface would be required to interface to the NGT.  It is possible in some (many) cases for an RS422 output to drive an RS232 input if you are careful with the wiring.  Aspen does this.  But:

The Aspen Installation manual has an appendix for the NGT9000 which explicitly states that nothing else can be connected to the NGT when it is used to drive an Aspen in this manner.   What that really means is "our approval of this is contingent on the NGT only driving up to 3 Aspen devices".  I don't think that really means your installer cannot connect it to the Avidyne, but it means (at least) that the installer and owner are responsible for ensuring that it works, because Aspen hasn't.     If you do not have a full suite (3) of Aspen displays, I'd be very surprised if connecting to the Avidyne didn't work just fine.  If you have 3 Aspens and then extend the chain to an IFD or two, your risk increases, but I suspect it would work.

But you need someone to sign it off.



Posted By: skitheo
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2017 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by Apiaguy Apiaguy wrote:

and now he has confirmed that yes, the 9000 will interface via hard wire connection to the IFD to provide traffic and weather!  Awesome.. now have to schedule with avionics installer to get er hooked up!


Does traffic show velocity vectors? Is weather METARS, NEXRAD, winds, AIRMETS, or all of the above?


Posted By: Freff
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2017 at 4:19pm
I am also interested in learning exactly what functionality works when sending ADSB In from a NGT-9000 to the IFD540 using 10.2.   Are there limitations?  is everything displayed properly?   I would really appreciate first hand experience if anyone has done this already before I commit to the purchase.


Posted By: AzAv8r
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2017 at 11:21pm
I can report traffic now works properly using the 429 interface with the NGT 9000.  No more "Traffic Sensor Faults", at least during a 30 minute local flight where previously (10.1.1.0) such alerts were virtually continuous.

The 10.2 installation manual does not appear to provide any additional basis for connecting an NGT9000.  Traffic can be connected via 429 as "Skywatch".  The errors reported in the terminal area pre 10.2 disappeared.  But there is no mention of it for a weather connection.  I *suspect* a 422 -> 232 serial connection as the Aspen uses would work, configure for an MLB100, but (a) that is speculation, and (b) you'll need to convince your A&P or repair facility to sign the book, and your IA to bless.

For the time being, we will continue to consider the IFD wireless useless, and use the NGT 9000 wireless to put WX and Traffic on our portable devices.  I look forward to a complete solution from Avidyne.  Kudos for putting in a WiFi client mode, and as advertised in the 10.2 PG (page 52), forwarding Traffic and Wx received from other devices across the WiFi.  Once that feature works for us, we'll use it!



Posted By: bonanza82jt
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 10:07pm

I stumbled upon this because I have an NGT-9000, and I'm shopping for something that will play well with it.  Maybe I have to go Garmin, but I wanted to give Avidyne a chance.  Is the traffic displayed with the ADS-B symbolism or is it the old style?    Is anybody getting ADS-B weather from NGT-9000 to display on Avidyne (I'm thinking IFD440) ?  Anybody bootlegged the 422 -> 232 connection?  With WiFi getting to be so common seems like they could just communicate that way (they both have it).  THat would be too easy I guess.




Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2017 at 10:02pm
It was reported, actually on the Bonanza forums by L3, that the Lynx9000 and the IFD units are now compatible and legal for TIS-B & FIS-B display. Firmware 10.2 will now display the new ADS-B topology for traffic, if it is a TIS-B source.

* Orest



Posted By: AzAv8r
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2017 at 10:37pm
Thanks Orest

I do not recall seeing the ADS-B symbology on my flight back from San Diego last Sunday.  But we are using the 429/735A interface.  And I'm pretty confident there is no weather over the 429, since nobody has defined a standard. So the implication is a RS-422/RS-232 connection as Aspen uses is necessary.  Was there any mention of this?  (Or in fact, the required IFD config, since the 10.2 docs only provide for the MLB100, if I read them correctly.)  Or of an approval basis (beyond NORSEE)?

(I'll ask my shop to call L3, but the more information I can provide the higher the probability of a favorable outcome.)



Posted By: AzAv8r
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2017 at 11:28pm
Cardinal Flyers mailing list reported this from Sun 'n Fun Avidyne CEO Press Conference:

"ADS-B boxes supported are Avidyne, Garmin and Capstone L3NGT900"

If only we had documentation...


Posted By: Freff
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2017 at 11:52pm
I have been asking Avidyne and L3 about this.

Avidyne told me this
"yes, we STCd the GTX345 with the IFD5-Series and IFD4-Series.  The Lynx is certified with it's own external GPS as position source for ADS-B OUT, which is what the requirement calls for.   Our new R10.2 software allows for display of the ADS-B Wx & Traffic from Lynx and GTX345."

L3 told me this.

Thanks for your email regarding the Lynx NGT-9000 and Avidyne IFD540.

 

The NGT-9000 outputs ADS-B traffic and weather on an RS-422 serial databus using the popular GDL-90 protocol. With software 10.2 to the IFD540, the 540 is compatible with the GDL-90 protocol, which means the IFD will display weather and traffic information from the NGT-9000. The wiring interface involves the RS-422 out connected to the RS-232 in at the IFD.

 

Attached are some pictures we took during our test flight several months ago showing ADS-B traffic and some of the FIS-B weather products that the IFD was receiving from the NGT-9000.

 

I then asked L3 if some sort of adapter was required between the two units to convert RS422 to RS232 and was told this

No adapter required. Simply wire one side of the 422 at the Lynx to the 232 input at the IFD. There's a wiring interconnect drawing in the NGT-9000 manual for the IFD interface.


One word of caution...currently you can't interface the 9000 to the IFD and an Aspen EFD display because the two displays use different baud rate settings for the 422/232. In an aircraft that has IFDs and EFDs, one would have to choose which display will be interfaced to the NGT-9000.


 



Posted By: Freff
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2017 at 11:59pm
These are the three photos that L3 sent to me demonstrating the integration








Posted By: AzAv8r
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2017 at 9:47am
Ouch.  The NGT has a configurable baud rate (38400, 57600, or 115200).  But neither Aspen nor the IFD allow it to be explicitly configured.  The Aspen manual specifies that the NGT should be configured with the 115200 rate, but I'm not finding anything in the 10.2 IFD IM which indicates what rate is used.

One might be able to get a rate converter to work, but that feels like a science project.




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