Database and update prices
Printed From: Avidyne
Category: Avidyne General
Forum Name: IFD 5 Series & IFD 4 Series Touch Screen GPS/NAV/COM
Forum Description: Topics on Avidyne's IFD 5 Series and IFD 4 Series Touch Screen GPS/NAV/COM
URL: http://forums.avidyne.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=347
Printed Date: 22 Dec 2024 at 2:28am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Database and update prices
Posted By: Paul
Subject: Database and update prices
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2014 at 9:58pm
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What are the costs for database updates? And what are the costs for feature updates? There are some features, such as Capstone protocol, which didn't make the cut for the first release and might be desirable. Also, will bug fixes be done against older versions or will it be necessary to upgrade to the latest features release to get them? |
Replies:
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2014 at 1:03pm
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I've got to find a way to easily post the matrix that covers this. There are a myriad of options and bundling choices so it's a lot of data and this text box forum isn't conducive. Working on a good format for you with Jepp. Each follow-on release will have a price associated with it and it will be totally dependent on the nature and content of the release. For example, bug fix releases are no-charge. New feature or feature rich releases may have an upgrade charge. The answer to the last question is "it depends". Each release will be a case-by-case basis on the content and impact on folks wallets. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2014 at 1:17pm
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Steve: Do I then interpret that statement to mean that features mentioned but not making the cut for release 1 will be an up charge? ------------- David Gates |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2014 at 1:29pm
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No, I think you're reading too much into that. We have not defined the exact content of any follow on releases nor have determined pricing, if any, for those releases or features. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: Paul
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2014 at 1:30pm
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The information probably belongs on the Avidyne.com site rather than in this forum. Maybe you can put it in a PDF file in the documents section? If you can give us some idea of expenses for near-term updates it would help those of us who try to plan a budget for aircraft expenses. (Yeah, I know how absurd that sounds.) Maybe you can tell us what the price will be for updates for the first year? |
Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2014 at 2:02pm
Thanks. ------------- David Gates |
AviJake wrote:Posted By: Paul
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2014 at 9:32am
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We're looking at a basic installation in a Cessna 172. It will be a single IFD 540, no class-B TAWS. The only way this plane can reach the flight levels would be if we stuffed it into the belly of a jumbo jet. The installation will use an approved WAAS antenna. At a minimum we'd want databases that would allow filing /G and flying all approaches the aircraft is capable of. We'd prefer the entire US but could make do with a smaller area, say, east of the Mississippi. There are other options, such as approach plates. While these would be nice, I don't think they add actual capabilities to the aircraft. So we could skip them if they are expensive (and we have plates on the yoke mounted GPS and the iPad). We are probably typical of the low end of the installed GPS market. Could you tell us the prices for the databases we would need? |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2014 at 9:13pm
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Let me take a swing at Paul's most recent post...... We have deferred the Avidyne Jet Assist Bottles indefinitely so we can't help with getting your 172 into orbit. To file/fly /G, you will need Nav, Obstacle and Terrain data. As you say, Charts are not necessarily required to file/fly /G. I know you said no TAWS-B but the baseline IFD540 comes with FLTA and that requires Obstacles. The prices estimated here are subject to an approximate $15 increase, depending on the age of my data. If you want to stick with the entire US for all Nav data and Charts (and Obstacles and Terrain), then the cockpit bundle (one price for an unlimited number of Avidyne devices in your plane) is approximately $1000 per year. That compares to $1800 per year in previous non-bundled pricing. If you didn't want any Charts for the entire US, then your price is approximately $650 total per year. So, in other words, you get full US Charts for an extra $350 per year. You can further scrape away at that by going with just East/Central US Nav data at approximately $370 per year and East/Central US Obstacle data at approximately $140 per year for a total of $510 per year. That looks like it's your lowest cost option. Eastern/Central US Nav and Obstacle data and no Charts. (Terrain is included for free.) ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: Paul
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2014 at 10:18pm
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Thanks - that describes it well. We will have a bunch of options starting at around $500 and topping at about 1AU. The Jet Assist Bottles would require a multi-engine rating. The FAA would take twenty years to certify it. The insurance company would want a whole lot of money if they were willing to sell us a policy at all. And our home airfield doesn't sell Jet-A. So I don't think we'll be needing high IFR charts any time soon. |
Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2014 at 1:29pm
As there is no mention, I am getting the sense that if you want Canada, you may have to buy all of North, Central and South American as well, like with the G product? * Orest |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2014 at 1:39pm
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No, not necessarily. We made the request to Jepp this past Monday to create a segment that had Canada, Alaska, Northern Half US. They were receptive to the idea and owe us a response shortly. That potentially new segmentation would apply to Nav Data and Obstacle Data (Terrain included for free). If I read their various Charts segmentation areas correctly, there are a number of Canadian options already - Canada ($610/year), Canada/Alaska ($740/year), Eastern Canada ($415), Western Canada ($360/year), Western Canada/Alaska ($545/year), and others. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2014 at 1:58pm
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Outstanding news, that will save me a bundle, and of course speed up updates. If I can select Eastern Canada + Eastern/Central US that will likely save me a bundle. Canada + Northern half of US doesn't work for me personally (depending on where you draw the line), as I tend to travel the Eastern seaboard, but it may be welcome for others. * Orest |
Posted By: jhbehrens
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2014 at 2:43am
| Do you have prices for European coverages? |
Posted By: Victor
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2014 at 7:51am
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Do you also have prices for Australia coverage? Victor Mooney M20J
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Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2014 at 12:24pm
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Central Europe: Central Europe looks like it's $450/year for the Nav data (terrain is free) and $170/year for the Obstacle data. I think there might be a $15ish increase in 2014 pricing - Jepp still owes us that. That cost is for as many Avidyne units as you can fit in your cockpit. Charts looks like it is $2140/year for Central Europe. There are a number of other smaller segments for Europe on the Charts side. There is no bundled package of all products at a much cheaper price when outside the US. Australia: Nav data is $370/year (possible $15ish price increase for 2014) (terrain is included free). Aussie Obstacle data is $140/year (same possible modest price increase). Charts data is $195/year and I don't see any smaller segmentation slices of Australia offered. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: SB Jim
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2014 at 7:27pm
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Jake, I've had a CNX 80 (same as a GNS 480) WAAS GPS (/G) since 2004. Annual updates have been running under $500 / year. That includes approaches, SID's, STAR's, Nav data, Obstacle Data, Airways, etc. for everything (I think North America). Does that compare to the $650/year IFD 540 data? Regards, Jim |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2014 at 8:02pm
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Hi Jim, Not sure. If you send me a snapshot of your Jepp account page that shows the products, then I should be able to do an exact head-to-head comparison. I really doubt the price is going up for you but let's check precisely. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: phkmn
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2014 at 10:01pm
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I have a similar question: my Jepp update is $535: Revision Service.28-Days.Annual NavData.Coverage.Garmin.GNS 400/500 Series WAAS.Americas 29-MAR-14 through 28-MAR-15 ------------- PH |
Posted By: FORANE
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2014 at 5:55am
$510 is lowest cost option? My current jepp subscription for East/Central USA is $330 for non-waas GNS430: Revision Service.28-Days.Annual NavData.Coverage.Garmin.GNS 400/500 Series East/Central USA 29-MAR-14 through 28-MAR-15 Guess the waas and obstacles run up the cost. ------------- Lancair 235/320 RV-9A |
Posted By: Royski
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2014 at 8:37am
Is this really the case? I'm not aware of the FAA requiring more than Nav data in AIM 1-1-18(f)(1). I really hope Avidyne doesn't impose a requirement on customers to buy such additional data from Jeppe$en as part of certification. |
Posted By: SB Jim
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2014 at 10:29am
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Jake, I double checked - $515 / year. To be very clear, I can't see approach plates, SID's or STAR's but these procedures are programmed into the box along with airways, Nav data and obstacle info. I don't plan to use the IFD 540 to view charts (not sure what specific charts we're talking about) or approach plates. My ipad has all that. What do I really get (in plain English) in the CNX 80 for $515 / year? Data on every single airport including frequencies, runways, etc. All published approaches (ILS, LPV, VOR, NDB) plus SID's, STAR's, etc. are in the box and are programmable procedures includable in the flight plans All airways are in the box and are programmable into flight plans All ARTCC frequencies I probably get more, but that's what sticks out this morning. Perhaps the Terrain feature is driving it up $150 / year? Am I required to have that? We have MSA's now and the box will call out 500' on approach. One of my goals is to keep database costs under control. Regards, Jim |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2014 at 7:54pm
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Attempted responses to the last 4 posts: phkm - You noted you were paying $535/year for America's WAAS. The data that Jepp has provided says that is $570/year for the IFD540 (as many as you want to stuff into your cockpit). Forane - You noted you are currently paying $330/year for East/Central US Nav (Non-WAAS). The data that Jepp has provided says that is $370/year for the IFD540 and includes all WAAS data. Royski - You are correct with respect to AIM 1-1-18 (f) (1). We are recommending the complete database but are not mandating it. I was too imprecise with my /G statement. SB Jim - I'm still not sure I can give a good apples-to-apples comparison. I will note that terrain is included in the IFD540 data for no-charge. I'm assuming you are talking about "Full USA" for that data. For the IFD540, full USA Nav data is $450/year according to Jepp. Full USA obstacles is $170/year and Full USA Charts is $940. Those were a la carte prices. Jepp is going to offer a bundled package for Full USA that includes Nav data, obstacles and charts (and terrain) for a total of $995 per year. For everybody's benefit, I'll repeat a few key points. Avidyne recommends folks to maintain subscriptions for Nav and Obstacles. But, we do not mandate either of those. In other words, the system continues to function without subscribed data. In that case an expired data message is presented at each startup and it is the pilot's responsibility to acknowledge and operate their system/airplane in accordance with governing operating rules. The same is true for Charts. Avidyne recommends folks maintain subscriptions for Chart data but we do not mandate that. We certainly recognize people are using various alternatives like the Ipad device that's been mentioned in this forum a few times. Each IFD is shipped from the factory loaded with Charts and if/when they become expired, the Charts functionality remains in the system and is watermarked as out-of-date. It is the pilot's responsibility to operate their system/aircraft in accordance with governing operating rules. One last note about Obstacles. For most folks, this is a net-new subscription that we recommend to all customers. That is because the baseline IFD540 has Forward Looking Terrain Alerting (FLTA) running that alerts you to terrain and obstacle threats. This is the principal element of TAWS systems. This is a new function/capability for most users. Unless you had TAWS, you likely didn't have this added level of safety in your GPS/Nav/Com. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: SB Jim
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2014 at 9:14pm
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Thanks Jake. My CNX 80 subscription is for North America. Regards, Jim |
Posted By: PA20Pacer
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2014 at 7:57am
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Hi Jake and Jim- To follow up on Jim's comments, it seems that he is paying $515 for a North American Navdata subscription for the CNX-80, while the full US Navdata for the IFD-540 is going to be $450. If this is accurate, you might pass on to Jeppesen that some of us would be willing to upgrade from a Full US subscription to a North American subscription if the cost delta was less than about 20%, as suggested by Jim's example. Regards, Bob Siegfried, II ------------- Bob Siegfried, II Brookeridge Airpark (LL22) Downers Grove, IL |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2014 at 8:01am
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Will do. It looks like Jepp currently brackets that coverage. I see "Full USA" and "Americas" but I don't see "North America". I'll make sure this gets passed along. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2014 at 9:33am
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A North America bundle, that is all CONUS+Canada, would be much appreciated! * Orest |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2014 at 9:44am
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Yes, that is the new segmentation Jepp is currently considering. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: phkmn
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2014 at 4:35pm
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I'm not sure if this is the best place to post this question but can't see one more appropriate. Garmin has recently removed 50 or so RNAV approaches from the chart database because "the glideslope is undefined" or some such language. Is this also an issue with the IFD540? ------------- PH |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2014 at 4:38pm
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Do you know which Garmin database problem that one is? If you are talking about the missing LP approaches problem they have, then no, the IFD540 does not have that missing approach problem. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: Gring
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2014 at 5:24pm
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Steve,
I believe he is referencing this notice from Garmin. I think they are up to 63 or so approaches.
http://www8.garmin.com/aviation/notices/garmin_data_exclusions.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www8.garmin.com/aviation/notices/garmin_data_exclusions.pdf
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Posted By: DaveM
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2014 at 7:38pm
I am presently paying $420.00 to Jepp for my Apollo GX-60. It gives me Western North America which includes Alaska and Mexico. Of course that is GPS enroute and Approaches only. The GX-60 does not have ILS approaches. Anyway, similar coverage would be fine with me. I rarely go East, but I do go to Alaska and Mexico. < id="mac_address" value="" =""> ------------- DaveM |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2014 at 8:12pm
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I'm not sure it's a fair comparison to use the GX-60. Jepp tried to create parity with the Garmin GNS and GTN options but not old Apollo type equipment. It looks like the segmentation you are asking for is not covered. Looks like you've got to choose between West/Central USA (approximately $370 for nav data) or Americas (approximately $570 for nav data) ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2014 at 8:42pm
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The Garmin Service Bulletin supporting pdf doc that Geoffrey posted the link has a number of issues they identify. The IFD540 is unaffected by most or all of that. I didn't do an exhaustive test of every example they list but to give you a sense of the comparison, here's what I've proven: Garmin excluded ILSs at Innsbruck Austria (OEJ) --> The IFD540 includes them. Garmin excluded two VORs --> The IFD540 includes them. Garmin excluded an NDB in Saudi Arabia --> The IFD540 includes it. Garmin excluded two approaches in Austria and a long list of non-WGS 84 approaches --> The IFD540 includes them all. Garmin lists a large number of approaches that are LNAV/VNAV or LNAV+V or LPV that show only as LNAV --> 18 of 18 that I specifically looked at all show as as the proper LNAV/VNAV category on the IFD540. Garmin lists a large number of LNAV/VNAV approaches that only show up as LNAV --> 10 of the 10 that I specifically looked at all show as the proper LNAV/VNAV category on the IFD540. Garmin lists three specific approaches that were removed due to CDI scaling issues --> all three of those approaches show up properly in the IFD540. Garmin lists a large number of LP approaches that were removed due to a lack of descent angle --> all that I sampled on the IFD540 show up as LP approaches (note that this issue won't be fully resolved in the IFD540 until later in Feb) Garmin cites that all LPV approaches at 3-character identifier fields improperly show up as LNAV approaches --> 100% of the sampled approaches properly show as LPV on the IFD540. Garmin lists a number of SID/STARs that have been excluded --> roughly two-thirds of all sampled SID/STARs from that list properly show on the IFD540. We are looking at why the missing ones are missing on the IFD540. So in conclusion, with the exception of the SID/STARs that were sampled, 100% of the Garmin issues are non-issues on the IFD540. Hope that addresses the original question from 8 Feb by phkmn. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2014 at 8:16am
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Two updates from my 12 Feb post: 1. We're going to take a closer look at some of these excluded navaids and procedures. For example, since the IFD540 uses a WGS84 ellipsoid, it doesn't make sense at face value to include non- WGS84 based approaches. 2. I did my cycle math wrong. The full complement of correctly coded LP approaches should be fully resolved in Cycle 1404 which takes effect on 3 April 2014. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: phkmn
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2014 at 9:20am
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Thanks. Generally good news. ------------- PH |
Posted By: Awful Charlie
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2014 at 8:17pm
Ouch! Any chance you can apply a bit of pressure on that please? That's like buying a new 440 every few years! |
Posted By: chflyer
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2014 at 2:49am
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Forget charts on the IFD540 in Europe. Even a single country coverage like France or Germany is over $500. Jeppesen doesn't have any interest in the piston-based IFR market in Europe and are pricing to discourage it. You can get all the country AIP IFR charts yourself in pdf format on a tablet for free with a little effort or comfortably via a more reasonably priced subscription (Rocket Route, EuroFPL, various iPad apps), and most IFR pilots I know are going that route. Then the $2000/yr difference can be spent on fuel for flying. ------------- Vince |
Posted By: wsh
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2014 at 6:15pm
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What is the pricing for europe on the equipment found in for example a Cirrus? what is meant with charting? I believe the 2170 you mention is for Jeppview. However if you do have Jeppview I understood it was only a very small xtra fee? |
Posted By: chflyer
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2014 at 6:50pm
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Certainly that is a good question for Steve….. are the prices mentioned for "standalone" charts on the IFD540, or are they additional to an existing Jeppview subscription? If the former, what is the add-on price for an existing Jeppview user? I know that Jepp supports up to 4 devices with a single subscription. For example, a single Jeppview subscription can be used on a PC as well as up to 3 tablets. It may be possible that the IFD540 counts as one of those devices and would thus be "free" for existing Jeppview coverage (I believe I read this somewhere, but it would be worthwhile to have it confirmed by Jeppesen). That would be the only way charts could be justified. Whatever goes for the GMX200 in that regard today will likely apply to the IFD540 too. It might be that a Cirrus driver would be willing to pay the coverage for Europe: Jeppview Central Europe coverage, including Scandinavia and Greece but excluding Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Estonia, and other EU countries, costs $2'500/yr. A trip kit for the same, excluding Scandinavia, costs $880. Considering that even for a large country like France, a trip over 2hrs in anything more than a Piper Cub is an international flight requiring more than single country coverage, it's really steep. ------------- Vince |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2014 at 6:57pm
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Guys, I don't know. I'm away on travel for a few days. I'll check into this when I return. Might not have any update until early next week. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: Gring
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2014 at 7:22pm
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For those who were asking about the database update time, I updated my IFD540s today with current databases. I used two USB drives, one in each IFD and it took 13:22 to update the following: - Obstacles
- Nav Data
- Charts
The charts took the longest.
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Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2014 at 8:48pm
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What region? All US? * Orest |
Posted By: Gring
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2014 at 7:07am
| US |