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Unexpected parallel entry into hold

Printed From: Avidyne
Category: Avidyne General
Forum Name: IFD 5 Series & IFD 4 Series Touch Screen GPS/NAV/COM
Forum Description: Topics on Avidyne's IFD 5 Series and IFD 4 Series Touch Screen GPS/NAV/COM
URL: http://forums.avidyne.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2368
Printed Date: 19 May 2024 at 7:10am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Unexpected parallel entry into hold
Posted By: BillinDurham
Subject: Unexpected parallel entry into hold
Date Posted: 25 May 2022 at 2:44pm
Today I did my first hold in actual with the IFD.  Actually it was a reversal turn into the RNAV 6 into KBUY.  I was on a vector of roughly 250deg over the airport for KAKLE.  Looking at the chart and having the IFD tell me it was going to do a parallel entry, I expected a pass over KAKLE and a left turn to 240deg for a minute or two, then a return to KAKLE and initiation of the inbound course.

Instead it commanded the AP to turn right over to wrong side of the plotted pattern and completed a teardrop on the wrong side.  I let it complete the turn but was perturbed.

What could have caused that?  What could I be missing?



Replies:
Posted By: AviSteve
Date Posted: 25 May 2022 at 3:17pm
It depends on your installation.  Does your autopilot receive roll steering commands from the IFD?

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Steve Lindsley
Avidyne Engineering


Posted By: BillinDurham
Date Posted: 25 May 2022 at 8:36pm
Yes it does.  I have an experimental setup with the IFD feeding steering commands through a GRT EFIS to a TruTrak AP with full GPSS steering (if that’s the right term).

The approach was activated automatically before the IAF on the IFD as expected and because it was a PT required entry, the hold was part of the approach.  I ‘armed’ the approach on my EFIS after activation and ‘executed’ it before the IAF.  The entire approach was flown with the AP with the right turn into a parallel entry being the only unexpected behavior

My EFIS does not graphically show the hold or entry track and I the small display of the 440 made it difficult to notice the track of the entry. 


Posted By: rolfe_tessem
Date Posted: 26 May 2022 at 9:07am
It sounds as if the autopilot is steering direct to the next waypoint instead of flying the hold. That would be the expected behavior without roll steering commands.

Rolfe



Posted By: BillinDurham
Date Posted: 26 May 2022 at 9:40am
Okay, please expand on that a bit.

I had a G430w before that I did the plug-in replace with the IFD.  No other changes.

The setup would fly holds in the miss correctly.  I can’t recall flying reversal turn holds because that’s not typical.  I’m looking forward to being able to fly ad hoc holds with the IFD.

What do you mean by ‘roll steering commands’?  How does that differ from what I might otherwise have?


Posted By: AviSteve
Date Posted: 26 May 2022 at 10:11am
Can you download the flight, system, and event logs and send them to me?  slindsley at avidyne dot com.

-------------
Steve Lindsley
Avidyne Engineering


Posted By: dmtidler
Date Posted: 26 May 2022 at 10:19am
Originally posted by BillinDurham BillinDurham wrote:

Yes it does.  I have an experimental setup with the IFD feeding steering commands through a GRT EFIS to a TruTrak AP with full GPSS steering (if that’s the right term).

The approach was activated automatically before the IAF on the IFD as expected and because it was a PT required entry, the hold was part of the approach.  I ‘armed’ the approach on my EFIS after activation and ‘executed’ it before the IAF.  The entire approach was flown with the AP with the right turn into a parallel entry being the only unexpected behavior

My EFIS does not graphically show the hold or entry track and I the small display of the 440 made it difficult to notice the track of the entry. 

Even though the nav source would have indicated GPS -> LPV when you performed a direct to KAKLE, the nav source would not have changed to LPV until crossing KAKLE upon exiting the HILPT. In other words, the HILPT would have been flown with the IFD in GPS mode just like any other IFD hold. 


Posted By: BillinDurham
Date Posted: 26 May 2022 at 10:37am
Originally posted by AviSteve AviSteve wrote:

Can you download the flight, system, and event logs and send them to me?  slindsley at avidyne dot com.
I can’t without prior intent.  The logs are stored on a USB stick which has to be plugged in and logging turned on (as far as I know).  This is regarding a GRT HX and HXr system.

In future flights I’ll try to start logging every flight until all questions re the IFD upgrade are answered.  


Posted By: AviSteve
Date Posted: 26 May 2022 at 10:39am
Originally posted by BillinDurham BillinDurham wrote:

I can’t without prior intent.  The logs are stored on a USB stick which has to be plugged in and logging turned on (as far as I know).  This is regarding a GRT HX and HXr system.

In future flights I’ll try to start logging every flight until all questions re the IFD upgrade are answered.  
I need the logs from the IFD, which you can download to the USB stick.  Instructions for downloading logs are in the IFD440 Pilot's Guide on page 6-63.  


-------------
Steve Lindsley
Avidyne Engineering


Posted By: BillinDurham
Date Posted: 26 May 2022 at 10:47am
Okay, since this particular approach is very close to home (I was using it to get underneath the ceiling and VFR into my Airpark strip), I’m going wait to go out in VFR conditions and re-fly the same approach with logging and such.  Then I think you’ll best be able to advise me on this.

Given what you’ve told me so far, it does sound like the AP was commanded to simply turn back to the KAKLE and took the shortest route which would have been a right turn.  The hilpt was simply not commanded.  It worked because I was at 4,000 already and there was no other traffic or obstructions present but it wasn’t the right thing to do.

Thanks!


Posted By: AviSteve
Date Posted: 26 May 2022 at 10:51am
Originally posted by BillinDurham BillinDurham wrote:

Okay, since this particular approach is very close to home (I was using it to get underneath the ceiling and VFR into my Airpark strip), I’m going wait to go out in VFR conditions and re-fly the same approach with logging and such.  Then I think you’ll best be able to advise me on this.

Given what you’ve told me so far, it does sound like the AP was commanded to simply turn back to the KAKLE and took the shortest route which would have been a right turn.  The hilpt was simply not commanded.  It worked because I was at 4,000 already and there was no other traffic or obstructions present but it wasn’t the right thing to do.

Thanks!
You don't need to go fly again.  Just put the USB stick into the IFD, power it up, and then download the logs.


-------------
Steve Lindsley
Avidyne Engineering


Posted By: BillinDurham
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2022 at 10:12pm
https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=172045" rel="nofollow - https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=172045
 
I did download the logs and send them in; thanks for the quick analysis and turnaround.  The problem was my operation of my GRT HX/HXr system, specifically the use of the ARM approach and EXECUTE approach.  The problem and proper operation are well described in the above link, particularly post #6.

Today I went out and flew it again and several other variations.  Works perfectly and the IFD is a substantial upgrade to the old G430w.




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