What does Bendix branding of IFD mean for Avidyne?
Printed From: Avidyne
Category: Avidyne General
Forum Name: IFD 5 Series & IFD 4 Series Touch Screen GPS/NAV/COM
Forum Description: Topics on Avidyne's IFD 5 Series and IFD 4 Series Touch Screen GPS/NAV/COM
URL: http://forums.avidyne.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1714
Printed Date: 04 May 2024 at 4:48pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: What does Bendix branding of IFD mean for Avidyne?
Posted By: brou0040
Subject: What does Bendix branding of IFD mean for Avidyne?
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2019 at 3:31pm
|
The IFD series will be branded as the BendixKing AeroNav 800, 900, and 910. Looks like Bendix is also getting products from TruTrak and JPI .
|
Replies:
Posted By: chflyer
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2019 at 6:06pm
|
Sorry, but April 1 is Monday. ;-) ------------- Vince |
Posted By: GBSoren71965
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2019 at 9:20pm
|
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2019/march/27/bendixking-launches-autopilots-engine-monitors
|
Posted By: DH82FLYER
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2019 at 10:23pm
|
Depending on where you view, I can see good and bad for Avidyne in all of this. The way I read it, the “Avidyne IFD’s” don’t exist anymore, they are now Bendix King products!
Comments? Thomas https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/general-aviation/2019-03-27/bendixking-deepens-partnerships-avionics-oems" rel="nofollow - https://ainonline.com/aviation-news/general-aviation/2019-03-27/bendixking-deepens-partnerships-avionics-oems https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2019/march/27/bendixking-launches-autopilots-engine-monitors" rel="nofollow - https://aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2019/march/27/bendixking-launches-autopilots-engine-monitors |
Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2019 at 11:40pm
|
Holy Toledo! * Orest
|
Posted By: Paul
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2019 at 12:48am
|
I think I'm real glad I did not buy an KSN 770! |
Posted By: AZ Flyer
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2019 at 2:40am
Or Avidyne-branded IFD's will continue to be sold and supported by Avidyne.
|
DH82FLYER wrote:Posted By: cbenedikt
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2019 at 11:25am
| It's probably nothing more than a marketing agreement meant to get more Avidyne product in the field. I wouldn't read too much into it. Just a way to grow the business. |
Posted By: chflyer
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2019 at 11:39am
|
Bendix-King had pretty much disappeared from the single-engine prop market over the last 5-10 years. Clearly the KSN 770 was too little too late to compete with Avidyne's line, for those left who still buy from anyone other than G*. This seems to fit well with Avidyne's just announced plans to push more into the business market, which is where the remaining Bendix-King products are positioned (AeroVue, AeroFlight). It appears that they've capitulated on the lower-end, partnering instead to offer them a higher-end growth path and allowing themselves to sell the partners' rebranded stuff. The elephant in the room right now is how big are Bendix-King's pockets? Are we going to see some buy-outs like happened with ForeFlight and FltPlan.com? That could be the logical next step. ------------- Vince |
Posted By: George P
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2019 at 3:53pm
| B-K has not been a serious player in the GA arena since the late 90s when the Garmin 430 came out. I put a B-K KLN88 loran in my Mooney about 1992. It was a great box for its time. It finally made it legal and possible to go IFR direct to almost anywhere. Their later boxes were pretty much just KLN88s with the loran replaced by GPS. Why they never developed competitors to the 430 escapes me. My suspicion is that heir hubris and arrogance led them to believe that their dominance could not be toppled. Silly attitude since they did exactly the same thing to Narco 20 years earlier. |
Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2019 at 7:47pm
|
The principal question to me is "Does this new business plan impact Avidyne's previously reported plans to continue and improve the Avidyne IFD series, or will those of us who already have Avi units in our panels be orphaned?" A comment of intent from Avi would be most helpful here.
------------- David Gates |
Posted By: MysticCobra
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2019 at 11:25am
|
On the face of it, this is no different from other rebrandings that commonly happen in the GA avionics world. Avidyne does it a lot: The AXP340 is mostly a Trig unit under the hood. MLB100/Skytrax100 was a rebranded Navworx product, and it's been replaced with a rebranded FreeFlight product. The innards of the AMX240 are PS Engineering. But this comment in AOPA's coverage of the announcement was interesting: "And BendixKing is not just rebranding and integrating these products, Fymat noted. “We have plans for what we want to do to develop those products.” He said those road maps will guide future developments." Not clear how much B-K's hand is now on Avidyne's tiller. Who's driving the boat?
|
Posted By: chflyer
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2019 at 12:06pm
|
There is quite a lot of activity in this space at the moment. Not sure how much BK is interested in the certified SEP part of Avidyne's market. The price range I've heard for the AeroVue is more in the MEP/turbine ballpark. ------------- Vince |
Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2019 at 2:10pm
Could there be M&A activity in play here? ------------- David Gates |
Posted By: AviSteve
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2019 at 9:30pm
|
You guys are reading way too much into this. It's just a rebranding. We're continuing to support and improve the IFDs. Avidyne is still Avidyne. Nothing has changed here. ------------- Steve Lindsley Avidyne Engineering |
Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2019 at 9:59pm
Thank you Steve, and we wouldn't want it any other way! * Orest |
Posted By: n7ifr
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2019 at 4:11pm
|
Agree - Thank you Steve... feel better. On the brighter side, maybe if B-K rebrands our IFD's, this may allow for Vendor competition for our IFD Charts (in lieu of Jepp) - . like Seattle Avionics- to supply our IFD charts via their "SlingShot" WiFi interface. Here's hoping... Tom Wolf
|
Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2019 at 5:23pm
|
That's from months ago. BK just recently bought Trutrax autopilots. They seem to be making a big play to get back into GA. Avi would be a logical acquisition for BK. Just saying.... ------------- David Gates |
Posted By: Paul
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2019 at 5:31pm
|
Well the obvious parallel would be when Garmin bought UPSAT to kill their superior product and to get engineers to improve a product which was behind the times. But we don't have to worry about that... |
Posted By: Gring
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2019 at 7:33pm
|
I've long said that I think the GA market will bear two equal players in the market with a number of smaller specialty vendors (think Aspen, Trutrack, etc.). It has been my long belief that Avidyne is that second player that can capture the market and compete on value and function. However, in order to be a second player, you need to have a complete solution of products and currently Avidyne is lacking two major pieces - a PFD, and Autopilot, and possibly a third which is a dual band ADS-B solution. Without these, I do not think you can truly compete for a customer's panel retrofit. I'm seeing people spend 70-90k on completely new panels, and today, Avidyne can do a lot awesome, but there is a problem when it comes to the PFD and Autopilot. BK has basically ruined their reputation with consumers and dealers. They have orphaned many products, alienated their dealer network and consolidated down to 4 repair stations, one of which doesn't even service small GA. It's bad. Now, with their new approach, they do have some new self developed products such as a PFD and Autopilot. However, they advertise the PFD as a 4K screen when in reality, it isn't even close to 4k, it is barely more than 1080P which is just dishonest advertising. The Autopilot with touch screen looks like a high school science project and not a quality component. This new rebranding of the IFDs does raise my interest in that possibly I could have a real PFD to compliment the IFDs currently installed. So, potentially, this could play well. I will say it again, Avidyne's IFDs and R9 for that matter, with touch screen (ok, not for R9), and buttons gives the user the perfect blend of user interface. I am not a fan of touch only interfaces. I want knobs and buttons. The PFD4000 was going to be just about perfect, and I think Avidyne should complete that project. The DFC90 is awesome, we need some small lightweight digital servos, and we are good to go. Anyway, BK, interesting and may prove to be complimentary to the already great Avistack. |
Posted By: MysticCobra
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2019 at 9:32pm
Back in 2017, Simpson essentially told us two things about Seattle Avionics data: 1) There were "many hurdles" identified to using SA chart data 2) SA has no such thing as certified nav data Source: Simpson's posts http://www.avidynelive.com/seattle-avionics-alternative-to-jeppesen_topic1410_post17116.html#17116" rel="nofollow - here and three replies down from there. Much as I'd like to see any option at all besides Jepp for nav data...I think it's vanishingly unlikely to ever happen for the IFDs.
|
Posted By: tony
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2019 at 8:06am
| Taking a deep breath.....This is hard for me to say, but I would buy something made by G, before I buy anything with BK label on it. |
Posted By: paulr
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2019 at 10:51am
|
This nails it. Suppose I buy an airplane and I want to refit new avionics to it. If I want full glass, I can choose between Aspen, Garmin, and Dynon. On the less expensive side, I can choose Garmin or AeroVonics, or the low-end Aspen units. Making any of those choices also forces me to make some specific choices about the rest of the panel because not everything works with everything. I believe that the ability to do single-vendor installations is a good thing but only if there's more than one single vendor to choose from. "In the future, every restaurant is Taco Bell" isn't the world I want to live in. So, being able to have a full Avi stack except for my autopilot and flight instruments is OK. Being able to have a full Avi stack including my autopilot and flight instruments would be better. The only vendor that can deliver that right now is Garmin, and maybe Dynon (except not really given that they don't have a certified IFR navigator). BK is clearly making a play to do this too. They have a PFD, they have nav/com/GPS, they have ADS-B, and now they have an autopilot (or several, really, but I'm mostly thinking about TruTrak). Other ways to get closer include: Avi buys Aspen or Aerovonics, or vice versa; Avi finds enough money under the sofa/in drone avionics to finish the DFC90 and PFD4000; Avi buys Trio; Dynon certifies their own IFD competitor. Lots of interesting questions then arise: does it make sense for Avi to compete with its own licensees? will anyone be willing to buy an all-BK panel given how effectively they've destroyed their GA reputation? will the market actually back full-panel solutions from not-Garmin by buying them? |
Posted By: Gring
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2019 at 11:37am
|
And Paul, to add to that, I don't want a system based on a small experimental avionics company. I want a fully certified and tested equipment with proven reliability. Even the reliability of the Aspen gives me pause. I think BK reliability history has been great, however, we are talking about a new generation of employees, systems, processes, and procedures and we will have to see how that works out. I'm a little concerned about rebranding in some cases. Take the KI256 replacement AI. It is built from the Sandia Quattro product which has tremendous software issues. I would not be an early adopter of that, even if/when my KI256 goes toes up. |
Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2019 at 11:56am
|
I agree with Gring. Market share by acquisition is not a new approach, but in this case BK has trashed its own name and rich tradition. I think the investment I have made in Avi products would be jeopardized if Avi becomes a BK acquisition target. I, like Gring, would like to see Avi finish the DFC autopilot and a PFD. But I say that if those two were done by Avi, not by rebranded equipment. ------------- David Gates |
Posted By: n7ifr
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2019 at 7:18pm
|
Well, Aspen Nav-Data is by Jepp, and the Chart Data is from SA. I would be very happy to see a B-K rebrand if it might allow our IFD's to play Seattle Avionics Chart Data and continue with Jepp Nav-data... Just trying to be optimistic. Tom W.
|
Posted By: Gring
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2019 at 7:00am
|
Here is something to watch. If you notice, we are moving from a society of ownership to a society of consumption by subscription. Nearly every successful company has either started or is moving to a subscription model for revenue. It is easier to manage, easier to plan, and in my opinion has several key benefits. Here is the interesting part, you can now even purchase a car on a subscription model. Porsche sells an auto subscription that includes - the car, all maintenance, insurance, and registration, and allows unlimited swapping of models, all done through a smartphone app. It is called Porsche Passport, and you will see this catch on with other auto manufacturers - mark my words. Why do I say this? BK announced an avionics subscription model. Now, I personally don’t know how this will work, or if it will be successful given the complexities of airplane ownership. For instance, how do I sell the aircraft with non owned equipment. But, this will be very interesting to watch, and it does show some forward thinking. I just don’t know if it is the right kind of thinking.
|
Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2019 at 8:20am
A thoughtful analysis. For the time being, though, I'll stay in the ownership mode, and I'll keep my Vette. ------------- David Gates |
Posted By: Gring
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2019 at 7:58am
| David, make mine a C8 in red please. |