ForeFlight/Jeppesen
Printed From: Avidyne
Category: Avidyne General
Forum Name: IFD 5 Series & IFD 4 Series Touch Screen GPS/NAV/COM
Forum Description: Topics on Avidyne's IFD 5 Series and IFD 4 Series Touch Screen GPS/NAV/COM
URL: http://forums.avidyne.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1300
Printed Date: 03 May 2024 at 7:29am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: ForeFlight/Jeppesen
Posted By: MarkZ
Subject: ForeFlight/Jeppesen
Date Posted: 07 May 2017 at 8:36am
| Now that Col. Jepp has awakened to the pilots' understanding of how valuable tablets are in our cockpits, how about cutting us all some slack on the ridiculous pricing? Could we see a bundled package deal in our future now that it is all but certain the volume will go up? |
Replies:
Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 07 May 2017 at 11:58am
A pipe dream. * Orest |
MarkZ wrote:Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 07 May 2017 at 4:37pm
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But an alternative, such as Seattle Avionics, remains a good alternative. Competition in terms of sourcing would support price accountability. ------------- David Gates |
Posted By: George P
Date Posted: 07 May 2017 at 6:41pm
| Absolutely. As long as Jeppesen has a monopoly on electronic databases, don't expect Captain Jepp to do anyone any favors. |
Posted By: paulr
Date Posted: 08 May 2017 at 8:19am
| Last time Seattle was mentioned here, a few folks mentioned something I hadn't thought of: chart and navdata for non-US users. Seattle doesn't have it, Jepp does. I am guessing that means we won't see SA navdata for Avidyne hardware until/unless they add support for other regions. (IIRC Seattle doesn't even have support for NavCanada data products, which you'd think they'd support). |
Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 08 May 2017 at 4:04pm
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NavCanada can be more of a bugger to work with, than Jepp. Seattle might be a nice option for US-only pilots, but obviously not a solution for all others. Because of its lack of generality, doubt you'll ever see it available.
* Orest |
Posted By: pburger
Date Posted: 09 May 2017 at 11:25am
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Who says Seattle Avionics doesn't have non-US data? Here's a clip from their website. This is for the KSN series panel-mounts.  The point is that they do have non-US chart data, so that explanation is not accurate. I assume that the Avionics manufacturers enter into some kind of exclusive agreement with a data provider, because without the data their boxes are boat anchors. There might be a revenue stream there for the manufacturers, too, but I don't know that -- and frankly, I don't care - that is their business. The fact is that Avidyne (and Garmin, too) use Jeppesen for data, and we are stuck with that. King uses Seattle, and their customers get cheaper data. So be it. Will Avidyne open up the possibility of data providers other than Jeppesen? probably not. Would that set them apart from Garmin? You bet. Do I think it will happen? Not likely. It would be great, but I'm not holding my breath. By the way -- I am super happy with my Avidyne IFD-540. It has a few quirks and annoyances, but as my Brit friends say, it's a nice piece of kit.
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Posted By: paulr
Date Posted: 09 May 2017 at 11:31am
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Fair point. I thought SA didn't have non-US data because they don't sell any non-US packages (that I can find, anyway) for FlyQ; it never occurred to me to see what they offer for other panel-mount units. |
Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 09 May 2017 at 1:46pm
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Don't know about all the nuances. I get my Aspen and handheld data from SA, and I do know SA is interested in providing data to IFDs as well. ------------- David Gates |
Posted By: DavidBunin
Date Posted: 10 May 2017 at 11:39am
I think you're right. Obviously there must be some kind of contract between the equipment manufacturer and the data supplier. Maybe that contract is an exclusive one, maybe it's not. (It probably is.) To me that means we are "yelling at the wall" when we ask Avidyne to look into Seattle Avionics. However, that doesn't mean that Seattle Avionics couldn't try to do something on their own under an STC. In other words, they might be able to get an STC to supply operational data (nav, obstacles, charts) for the IFD units. I would be interested in that. I don't need international data. Just the US would be fine for me.
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Posted By: Paul
Date Posted: 10 May 2017 at 5:38pm
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I doubt that Seattle would be able to provide data for the IFD GPS unless Avidyne works with them. They would need the data format information which isn't public. They might be able to reverse engineer it but that's likely a licensing violation and more important, they could miss something or have an error that won't be found until users trip over it. Being wedded to a high cost supplier would be a competitive disadvantage if others are able to source lower cost data. Avidyne is aware of this. I think Steve said that they had talks with Seattle in the past but at the time they didn't have complete data. It sound like they have it now. Maybe Simpson can comment on this. Our plane has an IFD and a Stratus II and we have a couple iPads with ForeFlight. I wonder what capabilities we'll have by this Summer when the new ForeFlight version is available. |
Posted By: chflyer
Date Posted: 11 May 2017 at 12:35am
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I suspect that this may actually be going in the opposite direction, given the ForeFlight-Jeppesen agreement. If ForeFlight wants to address the international market, then there must be a reason they decided to go with Jepp for data rather than SA. ------------- Vince |
Posted By: MarkZ
Date Posted: 11 May 2017 at 7:43am
| Jeppesen is owned by Boeing. Big companies will often dump subsidiaries. ForeFlight could be an interested buyer that wants to get their feet wet. |
Posted By: Old Bob Siegfried
Date Posted: 11 May 2017 at 8:16am
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Good Morning Mark Z., I like that thought! As one who has been using Jeppesen steadily since 1951, I would applaud that move. Boeing is a great company, but Jeppesen is a tiny potato for them. It could be a great fit for Foreflight. Happy Skies, Old Bob ------------- Old Bob |
Posted By: nrproces
Date Posted: 11 May 2017 at 11:58am
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Seattle Avionics, bonus operation. If it only works for US, southern Canada and the Caribbean, so what; at least some of us could take advantage of the price difference. GO SA! ------------- Sauce |
Posted By: Paul
Date Posted: 11 May 2017 at 5:01pm
|
I suspect Jeppesen is quite a bit bigger than ForeFlight. And a move away from Boeing might make their big corporate customers nervous. The Jepp / FF agreements feel like they're sticking a toe in the water. If it works well then they can go further. If not, or if the corporate cultures are too different (like Bendix/King and Aspen?) they'll terminate the joint development. |
Posted By: MarkZ
Date Posted: 12 May 2017 at 3:04pm
| One way or another, this makes for interesting bed fellows. |
Posted By: Paul
Date Posted: 12 May 2017 at 4:48pm
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I installed the IFD 100 software on my wife's new iPad Pro. The bundle we bought from Jepp doesn't provide charts except on the IFD 540. So they are not available on the iPad. And the rest of the data is available to the IFD 100 app but not to any other apps. If I want to I could get multiple device access for a few hundred dollars more. The Jepp charts are now much less interesting to me. |
Posted By: chflyer
Date Posted: 12 May 2017 at 5:09pm
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Yes, this is really disappointing especially since Avidyne was saying all along that if charts were available on the IFD540 they would also be available on the IFD100 at no additional charge and without reducing the device count. Avidyne and Jeppesen have really not been in sync on this one. ------------- Vince |
Posted By: MysticCobra
Date Posted: 14 May 2017 at 6:15am
Similar confusion reigned for months and months and months when the IFDs first came out. The Jepp website didn't include the promised discounted data bundles, and if you called and spoke to someone, you might talk to someone who knew what was going on and could set you up with the proper products, or you might get someone who told you something different. It was an utter disaster. Eventually, things improved into the normal poorly-organized website and confusing purchase process everyone expects from Jeppesen, but at least the products were available. Perhaps we can hope for Jepp to make the same evolution from "utter disaster" to merely "poor" with how the IFD100 is handled, as well.
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Posted By: MarkZ
Date Posted: 14 May 2017 at 8:05am
| Jeppesen has always been a monopolist boondoggle that profited from Honeywell, Collins, and Universal nav systems, well overpriced I might add, to serve airline and corporate aviation. Now that ForeFlight has entered into the picture maybe there is a slim chance that the database industry could be more reasonably priced for the bugsmashers and flibs. I'd entertain a lifetime subscription or even a multiyear discount. But, we're The Database Company; we don't care because we don't have to. |
Posted By: Paul
Date Posted: 14 May 2017 at 9:27am
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There are multiple bundles. If we had two IFDs in the cockpit we might have the bundle that covers more devices. Our bundle makes just about everything except the charts available on the IFD 100 on one iPad. We can't have any of it on the backup iPad. The charts on the IFD 540 are overkill for our Cessna 172. The charts on the iPad running Foreflight are quite adequate. We bought our IFD 540 before the IFD 440 was available (actually, we bought it years before the 540 was available). If I were buying a GPS today I would probably get a 440 with no charts and an iPad with ForeFlight. I'd have a backup iPad in case the main one overheats. And I wouldn't give Jepp a dime more than I had to for the plane to be legal. Spending over $1000 a year for a database for a 172 and being told that having the same charts on an iPad would cost hundreds more? Thanks but NO THANKS. |
Posted By: chflyer
Date Posted: 14 May 2017 at 10:44am
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You guys don't know how lucky you are having options in the USA. In Europe, the only option to Jeppesen is the (free) national IFR charts. That sounds like a good idea, except that each country has its own format which results in looking for info in different places, and in some cases having to calculate the MDA/DH because it's not listed as such on the chart. Quite a few do that, simply because they can't afford the Jepp charts. ------------- Vince |
Posted By: nrproces
Date Posted: 14 May 2017 at 11:40am
------------- Sauce |
Posted By: TurboPA30
Date Posted: 17 May 2017 at 12:14am
| Garmin has "Garmin Data" or Jeep data. Garmin a lot cheaper. So Avidyne should have Seattle Avionics Data and Jepp data. |