Transmit delay
Printed From: Avidyne
Category: Avidyne General
Forum Name: IFD 5 Series & IFD 4 Series Touch Screen GPS/NAV/COM
Forum Description: Topics on Avidyne's IFD 5 Series and IFD 4 Series Touch Screen GPS/NAV/COM
URL: http://forums.avidyne.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1099
Printed Date: 28 Apr 2024 at 9:50pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Transmit delay
Posted By: jblodgett
Subject: Transmit delay
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2016 at 4:49pm
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My IFD540 has an annoying delay when you push the ptt switch before the transmitter comes up. You have to push the ptt, wait a second and then talk, otherwise the first word out of your mouth gets clipped. I have noticed this on other IFD540s as well. It is especially bad when two aircraft with 540s try to talk to each other. Is there any plan to correct this? I hate having to resort to my ancient KX155 to communicate because of this annoying trait but that is what I find myself doing more and more. Thanks, Jim Blodgett |
Replies:
Posted By: Gring
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2016 at 6:59pm
| What software level are you at? They did a COM update to fix some issues with it relating to transmit. |
Posted By: jblodgett
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2016 at 7:11pm
| Version 10.1.1. That is the latest, right? |
Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2016 at 7:55pm
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Nope. 10.1.2 is the latest, and fixes this.
* Orest |
Posted By: jblodgett
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2016 at 9:10pm
| When did this come out? I can find no reference to it on the Avidyne website and I received no notification about it. Am I the only person that has not heard about this?? |
Posted By: Gring
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2016 at 6:39am
| It was fixed before 10.1.2.0 . |
Posted By: pburger
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2016 at 9:22am
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10.1.1 included a fix for issues with pilot controlled lighting. This may be your issue, but if you have 10.1.1, you should already have this fix:
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AviJake wrote:Posted By: jblodgett
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2016 at 10:09am
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Apparently 10.1.2 is not the latest. Apparently as of June 23 it is 10.1.3. As for the problem being fixed in 10.1.1 that is not the case because that is the version I have. The fix may have worked for pilot controlled lighting but the delay is still there. Has anyone else noticed this? I have experienced this on multiple occasions. I do a fair amount of formation flying and in the de-briefs after every flight other pilots will mention the clipping of the first spoken word. On two occasions, in group flights talking to other aircraft that also have IFDs it has been very noticeable. |
Posted By: Gring
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2016 at 11:25am
| I have 2 IFD540 at 10.1.1.0 level and fly formation. No issues with either unit four COM delay. |
Posted By: jblodgett
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2016 at 1:01pm
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I guess I am going to have to set up a scope to trigger off the PTT and measure the rise time of the transmitter. Then maybe people will believe me. |
Posted By: AviSimpson
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2016 at 3:42pm
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Have you had a chance to talk with our tech support team? I believe the ppt switch is interfaced with the audio panel and not the IFD directly. What audio panel do you have? ------------- Simpson Bennett Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
Posted By: teeth6
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2016 at 10:04am
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It's not a question of not believing you. It's just that others have not experienced this. You mentioned it is especially bad when 2 540s talk to each other. Does the other person you mentioned, also experience this on their own? I have not seen mention of this from anyone before so as Simpson mentioned, perhaps it is an issue with the PTT or the audio panel? Please keep us posted as I like to hear the outcome. |
Posted By: BobsV35B
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2016 at 11:55am
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I believe you JIM! Happy Skies, Old Bob ------------- Old Bob, Ancient Aviator |
Posted By: jblodgett
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2016 at 9:53pm
| Thanks Bob. I have a PS Engineering PMA450 audio panel. I have spoken to Mark at PS Engineering about this and while he is skeptical it can be related to the audio panel he has suggested a test that will positively determine if it is anything to do with the audio panel. I will try that test before the next step but currently the airplane is in the shop for a cylinder change. |
Posted By: pburger
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2016 at 10:45am
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FYI: I have an IFD-540 and a PMA-450. I am running 10.1.1, and have no transmit delay that I have noticed.
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Posted By: Gring
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2016 at 6:39pm
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Jim, I just went out to the Hangar to check on what you are talking about. I agree with you, there is a split second delay on the transmission. The way I tested it was the 4 click test mic on a SuperAWOS system. I had not noticed it before, but it is there for sure, and both of my units operate the same during multiple tests. I'm running 10.1.1.0. Hopefully Jake will see this and comment.
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Posted By: LarryPetro
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2016 at 9:29am
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I have the same problem with the beginning of transmissions being clipped. I have an IFD540/10.1.1.0 and an AMX240. Pressing PTT quickly does activate SuperAWOS transmissions and PCL. But, my audio transmissions are clipped, if I'm not careful. My solution has been an attempt to train myself to wait for a second, or so, after pressing PTT before I begin to talk. ------------- Larry Petro - Columbia 350 @ KFME |
Posted By: BobsV35B
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2016 at 10:26am
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For What It Is Worth, have you compared the delay with Avidyne equipment to the delay with other brands? I have owned several airplanes wiTh various brands of equipment over the last sixty years or so that needed a half second or so waiting time after pressing the mike button before I started talking. Has anyone put a scope on this to actually time various installations? HappySkies, Old Bob ------------- Old Bob, Ancient Aviator |
Posted By: LarryPetro
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2016 at 11:38am
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I previously had a Garmin audio panel (340 I believe). I had no problems with it and the same 540 and PTT. ------------- Larry Petro - Columbia 350 @ KFME |
Posted By: LarryPetro
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2016 at 11:41am
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I pushed the PTP key too quickly. It was a 530W + 340 combination that had no problem with clipping. ------------- Larry Petro - Columbia 350 @ KFME |
Posted By: George
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2016 at 1:42pm
| That is why in the olde days they always started a transmission with "uhh". |
Posted By: BobsV35B
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2016 at 2:19pm
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Uhhh! Who's that again? ------------- Old Bob, Ancient Aviator |
Posted By: AUXAIR
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2016 at 6:40am
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Uhhhh...hunh? ------------- David E. Cessna 182 RG II |
Posted By: jblodgett
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2016 at 8:26pm
Bob, My #2 radio is a KX-155 and it does not display this tendency to clip at all. -Jim |
Posted By: jblodgett
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2016 at 8:29pm
Thank you for running this test. I am finally beginning to get some traction here and on Beechtalk about this. Hopefully Avidyne will respond. To date they still say they haven't seen the problem. -Jim |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2016 at 9:02pm
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Never seen the problem. It doesn't exist. It's all in your head. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2016 at 9:03pm
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Okay, we'll add it to the to-do list. No idea when we'll get to it. Just a few things going on..... ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: jblodgett
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2016 at 9:10pm
Are you going to be at Oshkosh? I would like to discuss this with you. -Jim |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2016 at 9:14pm
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Technically yes, I will be at Oshkosh on Monday and Tuesday. I have wall-to-wall meetings scheduled with no breaks at this point but we'll see. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: DavidBunin
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2016 at 3:18pm
HA! Good one, Steve. I actually laughed out loud! I agree that the transmit delay is a real thing, but it hasn't been a problem for me in my operation and I can't say that it is unique to the IFD products. Seems like many "modern digital radios" have this pause that the old dumb analog radios don't. David |
Posted By: AUXAIR
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2016 at 1:38pm
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Very true, David. In the bad old days, transmit delays were measurable, but miniscule, as you waited while a relay pulled in to transmit. Barely noticeable. Then, some years later, delays were mostly shortened while you waited for a transistor junction or two to activate. Mostly un-noticeable. Now delays are dependent on timing while software loops are activated, on how efficient the designer was able to make them, and how they relate to all the other loops in progress. The new 10.1.1 appears pretty good to me, and does not clip my audio - but I am a broadcast engineer, and used to taking a short beat before speaking to make sure the "pot" is open. ------------- David E. Cessna 182 RG II |
Posted By: BobsV35B
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2016 at 3:33pm
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Good Afernoon AuxAir, Speaking of the "Bad Old Days", there was a time when just hitting a couple clicks was considered adequate affirmation even though no words were spoken. That was especially true of LaGuardia and Chicago Midway. I suppose that was what has driven many of we older folks to hesitate just a moment or so after we hit the mikebutton before we speak. Pilots have habits which need to change just the same as the needs of equipment change. Happy Skies, Old Bob ------------- Old Bob, Ancient Aviator |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 3:56pm
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I still use the mic click "zipper" technique to acknowledge some calls. But the point of the response is to say we believe those of you who are reporting the issue. We haven't started looking into it yet, but plan to do so some time after the Oshkosh dust settles. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: n7ifr
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 4:25pm
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I also notice this delay, about a full 1/2 second holding the PTT before the side tone is audible and to avoid clipping. Using v10.1.1 and Dual 540's with AMX240 audio panel. I noticed other Avidyne users on the Bonanza Forum with their IFD540's experiencing same. Pretty annoying, but getting used to the delay, - slowed down the PTT 5-7 pushes for lighting, and it works. Tom Wolf P.S. - any News on v10.2 or TAS - A software upgrades ??? |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 4:32pm
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It's funny. I haven't explicitly looked/listened for this delay but I never experience it nor am told by ATC I have it. I'm not saying it's not there, it's just my normal way of using the radio has not made it remotely noticeable for me. Like I said, we'll take a real look at it when Oshkosh dust settles. As for 10.2 - it won't be approved in time for Oshkosh. But, it's not far off. You can be sure we'll scream it from the mountains when it's approved. As for TAS-A - check out this thread if not already aware. I don't share David's feeling of this not sounding promising but I do understand the eagerness from everyone to get this in the airplane: http://forums.avidyne.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=757&title=ok-nearly-end-of-summer" rel="nofollow - http://forums.avidyne.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=757&title=ok-nearly-end-of-summer ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 8:40pm
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Please see my response post in the appropriate forum. I agree with you, bringing promise to fruition heals all perceived wounds. And, BTW, for the record I believe you all are trying hard and are delivering good products.
------------- David Gates |
Posted By: LANCE
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 5:49pm
| I just completed a 4.5 hour flight today and was specifically looking for this issue - it is absolutely not there on my IFD 540. I have 10.1.3 installed and my Audio Panel is a PS engineering 7000BT. There is no delay whatsoever. |
Posted By: n7ifr
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 5:58pm
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Lance, Not sure if this implies an issue in the AMX240 audio Panel... just completed a 2+ hr flight today and consistently had a 1/2 second delay with each push of the PTT button before full volume of side tone was audable. BTW, does anybody know how to reduce the volume of the transmit sidetone (heard in headset). Mine is very loud background squelch noise with PTT pushed fortransmit. No apparent way to reduce this with 540 or audio panel. Tom Wolf |
Posted By: Gring
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 6:03pm
Lance, That is what I thought too, and even argued it, but when I did my tests with something that plays back what you hear, it is there.
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Posted By: teeth6
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 9:44pm
| Strange. My PS Engineering audio panel records all transmissions and anytime I've listened to my transmission, it has never been clipped. |
Posted By: n7ifr
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2016 at 10:24am
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On 2-hr X'cntry Flight yesterday, ABQ-Center noted early transmission clipping of my audio... had to repeat and they confirmed. It is tough to know where the fault lies: PTT button, AMX240, IFD540, etc. At least I now have some reality on this from ATC. Tom Wolf
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Posted By: jblodgett
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2016 at 9:38am
| How about an update on this? I am getting complaints from all of my formation flying friends about this and have resorted to just using my old KX-155. I was going to add a 440 but now I won't because I need a radio that won't clip the first spoken word without waiting a second before speaking. |
Posted By: LANCE
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 11:03pm
| I have the PS Engineering 7000 Bluetooth with an IFD540, latest software- never had a complaint about audio clipping. |
Posted By: Gring
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 8:11am
| I believe the problem to be with the IFD540 and not the audio panel. |
Posted By: AviSimpson
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 10:00am
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We are still investigating the issue. ------------- Simpson Bennett Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |