540 to 550 Upgrade Path
Printed From: Avidyne
Category: Avidyne General
Forum Name: IFD 5 Series & IFD 4 Series Touch Screen GPS/NAV/COM
Forum Description: Topics on Avidyne's IFD 5 Series and IFD 4 Series Touch Screen GPS/NAV/COM
URL: http://forums.avidyne.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1074
Printed Date: 02 May 2024 at 3:03pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 540 to 550 Upgrade Path
Posted By: AviJake
Subject: 540 to 550 Upgrade Path
Date Posted: 18 May 2016 at 8:06am
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Sales and Marketing folks are finalizing their program that will be available for anyone interested in upgrading their IFD540 to an IFD550. I've seen the draft and it looks pretty good. They expect to publish those plans some time in the week of 23 May. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Replies:
Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 18 May 2016 at 8:36am
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Thanks for the update. * Orest |
Posted By: pburger
Date Posted: 18 May 2016 at 9:28am
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Steve, What can we expect as far as installation requirements for swapping a 540 with a 550? I assume it's a plug-n-play for the box itself, but are there external sensors that need to be installed? |
Posted By: TomG
Date Posted: 18 May 2016 at 6:43pm
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This could be good! Thanks look forward to next week! ------------- Tom G |
Posted By: TomG
Date Posted: 25 May 2016 at 11:57am
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Any news? ------------- Tom G |
Posted By: TurboPA30
Date Posted: 26 May 2016 at 9:37pm
| Tomorrow is the last working day of the "week of 23".... just sayin' |
Posted By: AviSimpson
Date Posted: 27 May 2016 at 8:08am
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We are working on the final touches of the program. We should have the approval shortly. ------------- Simpson Bennett Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
Posted By: AviSimpson
Date Posted: 31 May 2016 at 2:58pm
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Here are the details for the 550 upgrade program
which we will be rolling out this week: For current IFD540 owners IFD550 Early Purchase For more information contact sales at 800-284-3963 or sales(at)avidyne.com ------------- Simpson Bennett Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 31 May 2016 at 4:04pm
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A posted and clear video of the EGOCENTRIC SV for a 550 would be very useful. Thanks. ------------- David Gates |
Posted By: LANCE
Date Posted: 31 May 2016 at 5:31pm
| I know this is a foolish question to ask . . but here goes . . . any rough idea of when the IFD550 will be certified? |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 31 May 2016 at 5:39pm
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Yes, as soon as the FAA signs off on the STC. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: vuk3@me.com
Date Posted: 31 May 2016 at 6:15pm
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Hi guys, A few questions from me: Is there any further wiring to be done to the existing IFD540 tray installation to make the IFD550 work? Will the IFD550 require factory installed hardware modifications after I install it? I assume the upgrade will be like for like... If I have the 16W Comms in my IFD540 then I'll have the same in the 550 right? I'm located in Australia, will you guys consider sending the IFD550 to my avionics shop before I send back my IFD540 to minimise downtime. And do you expect the FAA STC to be completed in weeks, months or years? I'd like to know how long I have to pledge my donation for an upgrade. Cheers Andy ------------- VH-UAR YMMB |
Posted By: LANCE
Date Posted: 31 May 2016 at 6:20pm
This is not a complete certification but just an STC on the Attitude Reference System? Presumably a few weeks to a few months?
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AviJake wrote:Posted By: TurboPA30
Date Posted: 31 May 2016 at 6:45pm
| Aside of being a fancy display, what is the STC going to bring? Like, can it be used as a standby A.I. for a glass panel? |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 31 May 2016 at 6:45pm
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The upgrade from a 540 to a 550 can be 100% plug and play. There are asterisks associated with that statement. For example, did you have heading input to the 540? If yes, then you will get the TVV part of the 550 to show up. If not, then either you don't get the TVV, or you must add a heading source input to the 540. But, there technically is no need to add any more wiring. The 550 will not require any additional hardware mods that exist at this time. If you have a 16W 540, then you would get a 16W 550 if you took advantage of the upgrade program that Simpson published. I won't comment on the logistics of shipping boxes all around the world. It will be so situationally dependent on the individual install - you will need to coordinate with your Avi Sales rep and/or your shop. As for how long do we need to keep your pledge money - I won't answer it. Every time I've tried in the past, things have gummed up those estimates and we felt the furor of customers who did not enjoy that uncertainty or unrealized expectations. So for now, "it will be done when it's done." ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 31 May 2016 at 6:47pm
For at least the initial cert, the IFD550 will be a "supplemental, non-required" additional source of attitude. That means, whatever attitude indicators your airplane currently requires is unchanged. You can not use the IFD550 to serve as one of your required attitude sources. Architecturally, nothing automatically prevents the device from being used as a standby or even primary but that is not the cert we are seeking at this time. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: hamilton
Date Posted: 31 May 2016 at 6:55pm
| Seeings you have pricing in this thread, would you have any idea on list price for an IFD545? |
Posted By: LANCE
Date Posted: 31 May 2016 at 7:03pm
This was in the e-mail that came out on April 1, 2016:  |
Posted By: comancheguy
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 8:04am
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What would the install consist of, from an IFD-540 to 550? Ken
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Posted By: tony
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 8:12am
So I'm trying to understand this statement. Currently in my 540 installation, I have no inertial input. I display track and not heading. Do I have to add an inertial to upgrade from a 540 -> 550? or will the internal AHRS in the 550 be sufficient for the SV to work, given that I will not use this as a primary or backup source. Promise...... I just want to slide the 540 out and slide the 550 to get SV. |
Posted By: AviSimpson
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 9:56am
Here's a start... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlMCy18PYbU" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlMCy18PYbU ------------- Simpson Bennett Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
Posted By: comancheguy
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 11:37am
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Thanks for the info, guys! So, Will 10.2 be available before the IFD-550? I would like to see how the in trial works in my 540s with 10.2. Ken |
Posted By: MysticCobra
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 11:58am
From a http://www.nexairavionics.com/hot-topics/synthetic-vision/" rel="nofollow - 3rd-party site :
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Posted By: AviSimpson
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 12:13pm
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The green circle 
------------- Simpson Bennett Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
Posted By: comancheguy
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 12:59pm
| Gotcha! Thanks! |
Posted By: George
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 3:46pm
| Where and when on the early application form. |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 8:32pm
You can do the slide in option. You do NOT need an inertial input - the 550 internal ARS (attitude reference system) provides that. If you do not have heading input then you do not get the TVV (total velocity vector) symbol. That's all you miss with no heading. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 8:35pm
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I'm a TVV junkie. I don't care where my aircraft is heading, I only care where it is going. The TVV shows that. But, I have a 3000+ hour HUD TVV bias here. For those who have not seen a TVV in operation, you will be able to continue to fly safely in blissful ignorance (not a bad thing at all). Clearly, you can fly an aircraft safely without the benefit of a TVV. Until, at least you see, and become, a TVV junkie and then you'll never be able to shake the addiction/habit. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 9:03pm
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A FPV (flight path vector) or TVV is an incredibly powerful tool. * Orest |
Posted By: Slatye
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2016 at 9:50am
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Could I ask what's happening to the traded-in IFD540s? Will Avidyne just rebuild them as IFD550s? Or will they be re-sold as "certified refurbished" IFD540s? |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2016 at 8:28am
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Resold as certified refurbished. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: BobsV35B
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2016 at 9:02am
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Is there any video that shows the TVV in action? Happy Skies, Old Bob ------------- Old Bob, Ancient Aviator |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2016 at 1:59pm
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Yes there is. Simpson just put it together in the last few days and should post it or a path to it when he returns to the office/on-line. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: TomG
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2016 at 5:58pm
Can you illuminate some of it's uses? ------------- Tom G |
Posted By: M20Kid
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2016 at 7:09pm
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I have flown a number of airplanes with the TVV installed and the only time it's made one dot of difference to me was when I was getting a type rating and had to fly steep turns. Keep the TVV on the horizon and you would not climb or descend. I have not had it tied to synthetic vision, though, so there may be some additional benefit (like seeing the runway on an ILS in a crosswind?). If most of your flying is cross country you will get some interesting, but mostly useless, information from the TVV. Just my 2 cents. |
Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2016 at 9:15pm
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Put the circle on where you want to go, and the plane goes there. You can fill in any number of tasks there, whether level at cruise, or maneuvering. Together with the SV provided actual horizon, and the pitch attitude, the TVV (FPV) will by difference show you your Angle of Attack, right on the PFD, or in this case the 550. * Orest |
Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 11:52am
Respectfully. I don't think that is correct, Orest. That's why I installed an AOA indicator. Avidyne, a built in AOA, like Aspen has done for their PFD and MFD, though derived, could be a useful add on for the 550. Just saying... David ------------- David Gates |
Posted By: ronl
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 1:55pm
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David I agree with you. What it will be displaying is you pitch angle relative to the horizon in straight and level flight. It will not show your angle-of-attack. ------------- Ron L |
Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 6:00pm
Ha! I have you gentlemen.  Although the AOA is not shown discretely, the AOA is easily discerned as the angular difference between the pitch attitude and the FPV (TVV). That is really the definition of AOA. I use this all the time (with my ASPEN) to keep a constant AOA in a long climb. * Orest |
Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 6:08pm
A drawing makes it more obvious. The 74 is shown in a climb here, the pitch attitude is Theta, the FPV is V-infinity. The AOA (alpha) is just pitch - FPV, which is pretty easy to read off the PFD. For example, if your pitch in the climb was 15*, and the FPV shows as 11*, then your AOA is 4* (EDIT). * Orest |
Posted By: n7ifr
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 7:27pm
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Orest, Fascinating... OK I am trying to follow your logic - I assume you meant 15-11 = 4 deg, not 3 for AOA in your example. So, next flight, I will observe the FPV (TVV) on my Aspen PFD with SV and hold a constant AOA delta ("Pitch - FPV") in the climb. Wonder how holding a constant AOA in the climb will compare to holding a constant IAS, like Vy speed (which admittedly will decrease slightly with altitude). Tom Wolf
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Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 8:27pm
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Yes, typo, should be 4*. After second segment climb, when you transition to cruise climb, note your displayed AOA. Maintain it, and you will maintain the same performance profile all the way up. Your Vy will decrease 7 to 8 knts to the mid-teens. You can do the math, or just follow your PFD (or IFD). You can maintain Vy, Vy + 20, or whatever, using this AOA aid. * Orest |
Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 8:36pm
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If those assertions are true, why do airliners have AOA vanes? If it is a simple subtraction between fight path and pitch, doesn't make sense. The definition of AOA is delta between wing incidence and relative wind. The two may be close in normal flight regime, but not sure they are identical. EDIT: Does the aspen depict FPM numerically? If true, though, Avidyne can have its own AOA just with what is present. Is that how Aspen did their (derived) AOA? ------------- David Gates |
Posted By: ronl
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 8:40pm
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OK, now I can see that AOA can in fact be calculated from the TVV vs pitch. Thanks for the clear explanation O. I learned something today! :-) ------------- Ron L |
Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 9:15pm
It is just a bit of math. An AOA vane measures the AOA (relative wind) directly, and more accurately. Obviously preferable. Although the data is used internally, ironically, it is only a minority of civilian transport aircraft that show raw AOA. No, ASPEN does not break out the AOA into a numeric value. But, I suspect that is exactly what they are using, in deriving their AOA values, with some smoothing added, and displayed relative to a reference point established with the fairly extensive flight testing required as part of the install. If I was going to install a stand alone AOA system, I'd get the Safe Flight system. * Orest |
Posted By: n7ifr
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 9:53pm
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It is just a bit of math. An AOA vane measures the AOA (relative wind) directly, and more accurately. Obviously preferable. Although the data is used internally, ironically, it is only a minority of civilian transport aircraft that show raw AOA. No, ASPEN does not break out the AOA into a numeric value. But, I suspect that is exactly what they are using, in deriving their AOA values, with some smoothing added, and displayed relative to a reference point established with the fairly extensive flight testing required as part of the install. If I was going to install a stand alone AOA system, I'd get the Safe Flight system. * Orest Well, the Aspen AOA must have more... shows AOA in unusual attitudes like steep banks also, which must be beyond just the TVV. I will pay much more attention to the TVV practicing my Commercial Maneuvers... Great forum - Thanks Orest. I always learn new stuff here. Tom Wolf |
Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 10:43pm
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The point of all of the standalone AOA devices is not to derive a number as discussed here, it is to determine the critical alpha for a given wing set, then alert the pilot when that alpha is approached. I suppose you could take your 47 in level flight and calculate an alpha value for a near stall and use that number as a guide. In the case of my AlphaSystems device it calculates differential pressures on a pressure vane and compares the current value of differential pressure to that identified as critical alpha. I agree with Tom, always learning which is good. Best to all. David ------------- David Gates |
Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 10:49pm
My pleasure. It is an unhappy day for me, when one goes by and I don't learn something. * Orest |
Posted By: 195pilot
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2016 at 12:51am
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A couple of weeks ago, I ordered my IFD540 and APX340 plus the MLB100 and the installation will take place in a few weeks. I think that the IFD540 is (more than) adequate for my current needs, but I don't want to be stuck with yesterday's sweetheart when it comes to future added features and improvements. That places me pretty much on the fence regarding Avidyne's prepaid upgrade offer and searching for input from others who are more experienced than I am. As is the case for most, budget is a consideration but I certainly don't want regret a decision to not upgrade under the current offer. The 540 is a huge step up from my current Collins Microline with a IIMorrow GX-55 with GPSS. I've spent quite a bit of armchair time with my iPad and Avidyne's free simulator and feel at least moderately grounded in its use and can easily envision using the new stuff in my plane. I also saw the very helplful matrix above that details the major differences between the 540 and 550 including ARS. However the topic is new enough to me that I may not yet fully appreciate what the differences mean to me. My plane currently has a S-TEC Series 30 autopilot with altitude hold and GPSS. I understand that the 540 will play nicely with it. I'm considering an autopilot upgrade at some time in the future once the bank account has had a chance to recharge. Maybe to a S-TEC 55 or equivalent to get the benefits of coupled approaches, preset altitudes and so forth. Does the IFD550's ARS give more meaningful inputs to the S-TEC 55 or is there no advantage there? My Cessna 195 benefits from "help" in the area of pitch control as well as roll control. It's not particularly stable in either, although the current autopilot has taken care of both for cruise flight. I'm anticipating that preset altitudes, ILS/VNAV tracking and other similar modes would be pretty coarse without attitude based inputs, but I've heard that the 550 may not be the solution for that? |
Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2016 at 1:10pm
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With current history, performance, and bandwidth, I would NOT buy a 550 anticipating the 550 to do anything more than drive the 550; i.e., not serve as AHRS for an autopilot. I suppose Avidyne could do that, maybe are even planning to do that (I doubt it), but within any reasonable timeline? They don't have the bandwidth to complete current <<overdue>> projects. With the draconian cert which would be required on top of that? Nooooooo sir. With the modifications coming to the "newer and friendlier" FAA, more likely you in the future might buy one of the whiz bang APs which are either in or coming to the EXP world. That likely would have its own AHRS. (and would cost you maybe a LOT less). It is just my opinion, mind you, but my suggestion based on the appearance of the avionics world, keep the 540, keep the STEC 30 (don't buy the 55x), and wait and see what comes onto the market in the next 2-3 years. You'll love what you already have, and you will have a $$ war chest for when the next generation of new goodies hit the market. ------------- David Gates |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2016 at 1:31pm
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I agree with David. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: 195pilot
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2016 at 11:24pm
| Thanks, David and Steve. I appreciate your insights and comments. |
Posted By: AviSimpson
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2016 at 9:51am
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The IFD540 upgrade to IFD550 form is now available here: http://www.avidyne.com/files/downloads/IFD540_to_IFD550_Agreement_Form.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.avidyne.com/files/downloads/IFD540_to_IFD550_Agreement_Form.pdf Let me know if you have any questions. ------------- Simpson Bennett Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 2:53pm
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There are still some folks with questions about the IFD550 and the need for a heading input to get the Total Velocity Vector (TVV) which is for all intents and purposes, the same as a flight path marker. Hope this explanation helps a little: An IFD550 will display pitch and roll attitude from the internal inertial unit displayed in either a conventional blue-over-brown ADI format, or in a synthetic vision format with 3-D terrain, obstacles, traffic, flight plan, etc. In the synthetic vision view: ·
If the IFD is
connected to a valid heading source, the attitude reference symbol will “point”
at the current aircraft heading as provided by the external heading input. The
total velocity vector (TVV) will “point” at the flight path angle. The 3D
compass will display the current aircraft heading on a digital readout. · If the IFD is not connected to a valid heading source, the aircraft reference symbol will “point” at the current aircraft track as provided by the GPS. The 3D compass will display the current aircraft track from the GPS on a digital readout. There will be no display of the TVV. The TVV is never shown in the conventional attitude indicator view. The horizontal displacement of the TVV is computed as the angular difference between heading angle and track angle. Without a heading input, there is no computation to be performed and the TVV would be constrained to vertical displacement above/below the attitude reference symbol. While that provides some information, the TVV would serve merely as an angle of attack indicator, and was removed. The acceptable heading sources for an IFD are: Any device supplying ARINC 429
Label 320, Magnetic Heading (e.g. Aspen, G500/600, E1 PFD, EFIS40/50, GTX330
(data concentrator), Sandel EHSIs (3308, etc.), configuration items that
support Magnetic Heading (in descending priority) ·
INS/IRU ·
EFIS ·
EFIS/Airdata ·
Honeywell EFIS
(e.g. Aspen PFD) ·
Garmin GDU (i.e.
Garmin G500/600) ·
Sandel EHSI ·
Airdata/AHRS ·
Garmin GAD 42 ·
Garmin GTX 330 ·
Garmin GTX 330 w/
Traffic ·
Traffic Advisory Devices configured Shadin-fadc
or Shadin-adc that have a heading input. Synchro (we have ~5 wires on the
J5050 connector dedicated for this) Stormscope (synchro into the
stormscope, which sends it on in serial format)
We have no preference for which you use. In my test airplane, I have: Aspen PFD Garmin G500 GTX330ES TAS6XXA TWX670 so it would be a bad day for me not to have heading input and therefore a TVV. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: tony
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2016 at 9:25am
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So I think I get it. The ARS that's in the 550 doesn't know how it fits into the earth's magnetic coordinate system. Looking for a stand alone certified AHRS to get heading is a little pricey for me. Is it possible that in a future software update:
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Posted By: comancheguytoo
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2016 at 3:50pm
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Hey guys, Does anyone know if the KCS-55A heading output will work with the 550? I'd like to take advantage of the 540 upgrade option, but not ready to pull my old trusty HSI yet. The install manual says this under signal outputs: Heading synchro transmitter: Output equal to 206 millivolts per degree of heading rotation. I know the CDI outputs to the 540 fine, but never considered heading output. Thanks, Jim
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Posted By: Gring
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2016 at 9:23pm
| You need to have the rev version of the KCS55 HSI that has the bootstrap to send any heading information out so you want to check that out first. |
Posted By: comancheguytoo
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2016 at 1:40pm
| Thanks Gring |