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    Posted: 16 Jan 2019 at 11:42am
I am still new to my IFDs, but i can‘t solve the following problems:

1. When i tried to upload new data today (nav and obstacle) I got. „DFS format ERROR“ message on the #2 unit. I tried ten times, switched off the avionics, restarted the IFD a couple of times ... the TENTH time it worked ... 

2. When i enter a GPS or OBS course on both the Entegra MFD and PFD the airplane symbol is not on the magenta line. With the GNS430W this worked perfectly. I tried a couple of times doing Directs - but the airplane symbol is always left or right off the magenta line.

Is that  a setup problem?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2019 at 10:03pm
1.  Hard to say, but my guess is an unreliable USB stick.  Did you use the Avidyne approved one? 

2. So you have an active waypoint on the IFD, put the IFD into OBS mode, the IFD shows the zero deviation, and the Entegra MFD shows the aircraft off of the line.  Is that correct?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D-EACY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2019 at 12:39am
Yes, i use the USB sticks supplied with the IFD440s. I also formated them (FAT32) before downloading new data. I will buy new USB sticks and check if that helps. 

Yes, that is correct - but the airplane symbol is not only off the magenta line in OBS mode but also in GPS mode by an estimated 1/2 mile ...

 



Edited by D-EACY - 17 Jan 2019 at 3:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2019 at 9:33am
Say you have a flight plan with three legs in it, A, B, C, you activate the leg from B to C, then intercept that leg.  The IFD map shows you right on the line and the CDI datablock on the IFD is centered, but the MFD shows you a half mile off of the line?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D-EACY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2019 at 9:41am
Hi Steve, I have not tried "A, B, C" but I have tried

a) intercept an OBS course (extended centerline of my airfield, EDML, 245 degrees). Then I ised (like always) HDG+NAV on the DFC90  to intercept that course. I my cse I used a heading of 190 degrees. I realized that the intercept turn came (my feeling!) later than with the 430Ws (i do that stiff all the time) and the airplane turned on course when it was already on the other side of the magent a lie ON BOTH the MFD and the PFD/HSI. Then it flew parallel to that course, my estimate is an offtrack of 1/2 mile on the MFD

b) I made a DIRECT from EDML to the MIQ NDB at the takeoff position. After TO i used NAV to intercept that course, which was left of me when I reached 2500 ft. The airplane flew just a little through the magenta lince and proceeded to MIQ staying left of the magenta lobe on the MFD.

I will resize some photos I made and post them here ... Just a moment!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D-EACY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2019 at 9:48am
Here are the picture of my test trying to fly DIRECT to the MIQ NDB. YOu can see that the airplane is exactly on the magenta line on the IFD (in the highest zoom level) and it's off on both the MFD and PFD/HSI.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2019 at 3:39pm
I've run some tests in our lab.  It's just slightly off there, but only when you're zoomed way in.  I'm assuming that you've verified that your IFD configuration is exactly the same as what your 530 had.

I doubt that it's IFD software or else we would have heard about this from every other user with your configuration.  The only possibility I could think of was the resolution of the latitude and longitude that are transmitted over the 429 graphics interface.  If G* rounds and we truncate, that might cause a difference, but just barely.

I'll continue to investigate as I can, but thought I'd at least provide an update.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D-EACY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2019 at 4:18pm
Hi Steve,

I had two 430Ws before - and it was always exactly on the line in all zoom levels.
Why can it be OFF at all? 

It's not that bad on the MFD (or I could live with that) - but on the HSI it's really distracting becaue you have the green line and the magenta on.

I talked to Avionic Str. today and they told me that it might (might!) have to do with the DFC90 and that that could maybe be adjusted? Do you think that might be possible.

I will do another flight tomorrow and test the following:
- Is there a difference between MAV and GPSS mode (I only use NAV for everything)
- What if I HAND-fly onto the magenta line?

Let me know if you have other ideas I could test!

Thank you!


Edited by D-EACY - 18 Jan 2019 at 4:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2019 at 4:34pm
I suppose it could be DFC-90 calibration, especially in NAV mode.  The only hesitation I have with that is that your CDI is dead center in the photos above.  You could hand fly it onto the magenta line as a test, but I suspect you would show a CDI deviation and the IFD would show you off of its line.  As an aside, to do an apples-to-apples comparison, when you zoom the IFD in to it's maximum, does it show exactly on the line or is it off a little bit too?

GPSS will use roll steering from the IFD.  That mode will result in better performance - especially through holds and procedure turns.  But, it depends upon how you have it wired.  I'd refer you to tech support if you have questions on that.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D-EACY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2019 at 5:23pm
Ok, thank you.

Please clarify one thing. All of us who have the Entegra system and the DFC90 ALWAYS only fly in NAV mode and with the 430W there was never any difference between GPSS and NAV in precision - in no procedure.

For years all the experienced CSIPs teach that ONLY NAV mode should be used, which also makes the whole thing much more simple because you don't have to switch the autopilot to NAV for (any) approach (and therefor cannot forget to do so).

YES, it is precise on the IFD. At the highest zoom level all i can see is that the maybe the nose of the airplane is not 100% in the center of the line. Something you only see when you want to see it.

There also seems to be a difference with the RNAV approach. I had the feeling that once i was on the approach it was better ....

Please let me know what you find out ... I think it cannot stay like this.

Will do some more flying today and report.



Edited by D-EACY - 19 Jan 2019 at 5:10am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D-EACY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2019 at 10:12am
I did another flight - with an interesting result. I all normal zoom levels or range settings of the EHSI you cannot see a difference - but it shows when you zoom in. Is that normal?
Also: Is it possible that the difference is bigger in GPS TERM mode? The first photos i posted were in TERM mode AND with max zoom ...

Here are the photos from yesterday ...








Edited by D-EACY - 20 Jan 2019 at 10:13am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2019 at 10:16am
In the end, the magenta line is just that - a line on the display.  It is a representation of the flight plan legs.  It should be reasonably precise, but it is limited by the resolution of the data driving it, the capability of the display, and the drawing software within the display.  It should be right on, but it's possible that it could be a pixel or two off, especially at close-in zoom settings.  The point is that the FMS is not guiding to the line.  Instead, the displayed aircraft symbol should theoretically be on the displayed line as a secondary effect of FMS providing guidance to the active leg and the autopilot following that guidance.

The FMS computes deviation to the path defined by the active leg and computes roll steering commands to zero that deviation.  The autopilot can either use the roll steering commands (GPSS) or use the raw deviation and generate its own roll commands to zero that deviation (NAV).  Availability of those modes depends upon the capability of the autopilot and how it is installed.  In either case, the deviation shown on the CDI should be zero when the FMS thinks it's on path.  Note that the scaling of the CDI will be different based on whether you're in Enroute, Terminal, or Approach mode.  So, while a minor deviation may not be noticable in enroute mode, they will be more noticiable in terminal or especially in approach.

There is one caveat to be aware of.  If you're on an SBAS final approach (LPV, LP, and some LNAV/VNAVs), the path to be followed is not defined by the flight plan legs.  Instead, the path is defined by a mathematical representation of the final approach segment.  Think of it as the "beam", similar to an ILS.  In theory, the beam should overlay the flight plan legs, but there's a chance that it's slightly different.  If it's slightly different and your aircraft is right on the beam, I would expect the CDI to be centered and the aircraft symbol to be slightly off of the magenta line.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D-EACY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2019 at 10:29am
So, would you say that everything is okay? And can you say why it's less precise than with the 430W ?
Do the systems in your lab display the same error?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2019 at 12:14pm
I can't say why it appears differently than the 430W.  I'd really have to dig into the ARINC-429 stream and compare the IFD output to the 430W output to check whether the streams are the same.  We did that during initial IFD development and I don't remember any glaring differences.  When I hooked up an IFD to an MFD in our lab, the aircraft symbol was slightly off of the line on the MFD, but in a different direction than yours.  Not enough off that I was concerned, though.

Out of curiosity, I may take another look at the 429 streams when I get a chance.  I'm just busy right now in the middle of this upcoming 10.2.3.1 release.

Have you had your shop discuss this with our tech support group?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D-EACY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2019 at 12:23pm
Steve,
today i did another test - and especially in OBS mode the airplane symbol on both the MFD AND the EHSI (worse and distractring) was WAY off. I had dialed in a course of 245 degrees and when I zoomed in so that the inner ring in the EHSI showed 2.5 miles - the green line and the magenta line were like 1/4 of an inch apart ... not nice.
any idea how this can be fixed?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D-EACY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2019 at 6:06am
Look at these pictures please:
#1 is GPS mode (DIRECT TO).
#2 is OBS mode. Dialed in a course, let the DFC90 intercept that course.






Edited by D-EACY - 17 Feb 2019 at 2:47am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2019 at 8:59pm
Now we're getting somewhere.  I'll take a look at that specific scenario when I get into the office on Monday.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2019 at 10:28am
I set up the same scenario here and everything lined up.  The aircraft was 095/23.5nm to EDMV.  I did OBS mode and as I moved the selected course, the deviations followed correctly.

How is your 429 configured?  I had it set to "Honeywell EFIS" on the input and "GAMA Graphics w/Int" on the output.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D-EACY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2019 at 11:53am
Can you please let me know how to open the setup page and I can check on Thursday. It was installed by your dealer (Straubing) and I had GNS430Ws before, so I wonder if the settings had to be changed?

I tried again yesterday: All fine in GPS-DIRECT TO mode - and a big gap in OBS mode!



Edited by D-EACY - 19 Feb 2019 at 11:53am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2019 at 12:14pm
There are several ways to get into Maintenance Mode, but here's one.  Before powering up the IFD, insert a USB stick into the bezel.  Apply power.  When the IFD is up, use the AUX key to change to the "Config" tab.  You should start on the 429 page, which is what you want.  If not, rotate the outer knob until the main 429 config page is shown.  That's where you would see "Honeywell EFIS".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D-EACY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2019 at 12:15pm
Just to be clear: put an empty FAT32 formated USB into the IFD440s USB?





Edited by D-EACY - 19 Feb 2019 at 12:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D-EACY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2019 at 9:09am
Hi Steve,
ich checked it all. Result: The IFDs were both set to "SANDEL EHSI" not to "Honeywell EFIS". I changed that (and checked that it was saved) - but no difference.

I could only test it on the ground today, but it's obvious that this can't be correct. From the same position i did a DIRECT to EDMV and an OBS course with the same value ... but it doesn't line up.

I also made pictures of the serial numbers and software versions. Maybe you can check that too.

Here's new pictures:



















Edited by D-EACY - 21 Feb 2019 at 9:34am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2019 at 9:43am
Are you sure the selected course calibration procedure was completed with the install?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D-EACY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2019 at 9:47am
I did not install them – your dealer AVIONIK STRAUBING did. How can I know if they did it correctly?
How is it calibrated? Can you please instruct your dealer how to do it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2019 at 11:24am
Originally posted by D-EACY D-EACY wrote:

I did not install them – your dealer AVIONIK STRAUBING did. How can I know if they did it correctly?

You have to ask AV-ST if they did the calibration procedure.  Nothing in this thread indicates that you have posed that question to them.

If they say: "What calibration procedure?" the source of your problem may be found.

If they say: "Yes" you might ask them to re-check it.

Originally posted by D-EACY D-EACY wrote:

How is it calibrated? Can you please instruct your dealer how to do it?

To find out, ask your dealer how the calibration is done.  

If they say "What calibration?" tell them to read the install manual and find out.  You could also call Avidyne tech support and find out what the procedure is, if you want to confirm your dealer knows what he is talking about (I would if I were you).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D-EACY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2019 at 3:55pm
I have the installation manual. And nowhere can i find a chapter about the calibration of a digital HSI.

Where in the manual is it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2019 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by D-EACY D-EACY wrote:

I have the installation manual. And nowhere can i find a chapter about the calibration of a digital HSI.

Where in the manual is it?
Page 113.  At this point, you should have your installer contact tech support.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D-EACY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2019 at 4:22pm
I have contected Avionik Straubing several times about this and they told me that they do not know what is wrong and that they are not aware of a "calibration procedure" for the PFD/MFD especially since my IFDs were installed as direct replacements for the GNS430Ws.

Maybe you can clarify what you mean by "calibration"?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2019 at 7:25pm
Have them call or email tech support.  They can answer all of those questions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D-EACY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2019 at 9:21am
Hi Steve,
they will do that anyway. But as your customer I would like you to explain to me what exactly has to be done. I hope that's not asking for too much :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2019 at 9:53am
That's why we provide our customers with a tech support line.  Again, that's in the IM - see Page 113. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D-EACY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2019 at 10:03am
That must be a misunderstanding then - i thought that this forum is for informing customers about technical details.
Avionik Straubing is investigating, and I will get back to you about what they found out!
Thanks, anyway
Alexis
(Entegra, PFD&MFD, DFC90, 2x IFD440)


Edited by D-EACY - 25 Feb 2019 at 10:03am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2019 at 10:21am
The forum is not intended to be a substitute for tech support.  I'll do my best to answer some limited, general questions, but when it starts getting into details about a specific installation, you really will be much better served by our tech support group.  They are very good at resolving these kinds of issues.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D-EACY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2019 at 10:26am
Today I flew over to the Avionics Dealer to tell them what I was told here.

Result: There is no "calibration" possible of the EHSI in the PFD. Page 113 in the Installation Manual is about calibrating a mechanical HSI.

Their best guess is that the IFD software has a bug, but they are investigating.
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