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IFD and ForeFlight Approach Transfer Errors

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GeeGeeBee View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 11:57am
Has anyone else run across this (or can try it out to see if you can replicate it)?

Having some issues transferring certain approaches from IFD to ForeFlight (and vice versa).  It only happens with VOR approaches (not VOR/DME) and not with every one of them.  See pics of two examples: the VOR Z RWY 32 into Gulfport (KGPT) does not transfer properly (red block in FF FPL with text "3.KGPT.D32-Z"); the VOR Y RWY 32 at the same airport (KGPT) works fine (green block in FF FPL with text "VTF: VOR Y RWY 32".  







It doesn't matter if you choose VTF or some other initial point.  It also doesn't matter if you create the flight plan in IFD or FF - although IFD -> FF will at least transfer (with the approach not working) but FF -> IFD will not transfer at all.

I have not found the error with any other type approach so far (obviously have not tested them all).  Here's a non-exhaustive list of some that I've tried and which ones worked (and which did not).

KBXA VOR/DME-A; no issue
KLUL VOR-A; no issue
KGPT VOR Z / TACAN Z 14; does not work
KGPT VOR Z 32; does not work
KGPT VOR Y 14; no issue
KGPT VOR Y 32; no issue
KGAD VOR 6; does not work
KMSL VOR 12; does not work
KSYI VOR 36; does not work (the VOR/DME 18 to the same airport works fine)
KTUP VOR 18; does not work
KNQA VOR or TACAN 22; does not work

Can someone try some of these on their setup and let me know if they do or do not have the same issues?  I've reached out to Avidyne support and they say it's a ForeFlight or Jeppesen issue - ForeFlight is looking into it but nothing so far. 

My software revision is 10.2.4.1 and I'm using an IFD440 with IFD100 (FF is latest version; all Jep databases are the latest), if that makes any difference.

Thanks!


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AviSteve View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 3:57pm
The problem is in the way that the approaches have been coded in the nav database.  KGPT VOR Y 14 and 32 are coded as "VOR Approach using VORDME/VORTAC".  That matches what Foreflight has so they work OK.  The VOR Z 32 and 14 are coded as "VORDME Approach".  That doesn't match FF, so they don't load.

I will check with Jeppesen regarding why those approaches are coded that way.  I suspect is has to do with the "DME Required" note in the -Z approaches, but we'll find out.  Standby...
Steve Lindsley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeeGeeBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 4:37pm
Thank you Steve!  And I believe you're onto something here.  Of the 20 non-DME approaches I looked at (meaning, the FAA classifies them in the title section as just "VOR" not "VOR/DME") here's the stats:

DME Required: 9
Number of those which did not transfer: 8

DME not required: 11
Number of those which did not transfer: 0

The one exception was the VOR RWY 33 to KTBN, which says "DME or RADAR required"; this approach transferred fine.  The other eight just said "DME required" and none of them transferred.

So, it does seem that "DME Required" are the magic words (or, in this case, the bad words) that cause problems.

Hopefully you and Jeppesen can get that coding straight so all will transfer peacefully.  :)

Thanks again!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeeGeeBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 10:55pm
So in every case where there was a transfer error, it was a "VOR" (only) approach per the FAA in the title of the plate, but Avidyne has it listed as "VORDME".  Where there was alignment between the chart title and Avidyne's nomenclature, there was never a transfer issue (VOR -> VOR; VOR/DME -> VOR/DME); where there was a difference, it never worked.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kentucky Captain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2021 at 11:24pm
Steve,

Did you ever arrive at a fix for the approaches not being available on a flight plan that was transferred from Foreflight?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 2021 at 8:07am
I understand why it's occurring, but I haven't received feedback yet from Jeppesen as to why the approaches are coded that way.
Steve Lindsley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kentucky Captain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 3:54am
Originally posted by AviSteve AviSteve wrote:

I understand why it's occurring, but I haven't received feedback yet from Jeppesen as to why the approaches are coded that way.


I don't understand what the difference would be between loading the destination in the IFD as opposed to uploading it from Foreflight.  It's only when you load the flight plan from Foreflight that you lose the ability to add a procedure.  As soon as you dump the flight plan uploaded from Foreflight and do it manually, it works fine.  It's like the IFD doesn't recognize the destination in a route uploaded from Foreflight as a destination and thus no procedure is allowed.  What would be the difference?  That pretty much makes the ability to upload the flight plan pretty useless for IFR flying, assuming you will be shooting an approach at the destination.
I was spending my kid's inheritance, one upgrade at a time but found that was too slow. Now I'm doing multiple upgrades at once.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 5:42pm
Kentucky Captain, your question was regarding the subject of a different thread and I didn't realize it when I first answered.  I've posted a response on the relevant thread.

Edited by AviSteve - 14 Sep 2021 at 5:42pm
Steve Lindsley
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