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IFD 10.2.1 bug fix release timing?!

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ptlevine View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 Dec 2017 at 11:04am
Its been a while since I have heard anything on the anticipated release of the the next software update to address the bugs in 10.2. Originally, I had been told before year end. However, now we are in December without any further news and I am becoming skeptical. 

I've been waiting patiently since March when 10.2 was released, installed and promptly blew up my ability to fly a coupled GPS approach with any vertical nav (LPV or LNAV/VNAV) in my plane (KFC225 and G500) and introduced a repeated AHRS failure on taxi in my G500. 
The coupled approach failure is particularly aggravating since this was a bug I helped identify in the very first software version released when my IFD540 was installed during the initial product roll-out.  It was fixed in the first update release they issued. While I understand that the number of different PFD and A/P configurations in the field makes it difficult to ensure everything is going to work perfectly, to repeat the same mistake in a later release is frustrating as a consumer and a huge Avidyne cheerleader. 
I am a little more chill about the AHRS failure for the reasons above, although we didn't have that problem running the exact same G500 software prior to the 10.2 upgrade. 

So, without asking Avidyne to pin down an exact date as I know that is impossible, is there any timing information that can be shared (or at least an update on what step you are on in the process)? 
How about multiple choice response:
A) Relax, it will still be Q4 
B) OK, we blew 2017, but are reasonably confident it will be Q1 2018
C) Unfortunately, FAA delays, difficult engineering, yada yada, the best we can say with confidence is sometime in 2018
D) Go Pound Sand


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oskrypuch View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2017 at 4:17pm
I think the answer is (E).

E) Please wait patiently.

I believe I read that the G500 fixes are very high on the priority. If they aren't done, then that might be keeping .1 from GA.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 04 Dec 2017 at 4:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ptlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2017 at 1:39pm
Orest
I think that Answer E is actually answer C. If they cannot commit to completing by sometime in 2018, we shouldn't be expected to wait patiently. I have been waiting very patiently since March 2017. If a bug fix takes more than 22 months to issue, even the most patient person should lose his or her cool. 
I know I am not alone in the G500/KFC225 bucket. In fact, my dealer has two other clients in the same boat. So, I am sure that Avidyne is working the issue. I would just like my expectations to be managed. Or, be provided with an alternate option, like rolling back to 10.1.xx. I am not sure I would do that, but not having coupled LPV is a drag, and the AHRS failures are frustrating bordering on potentially dangerous. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2017 at 5:54pm
I understand your frustration. I feel some myself, even though the G500 matter doesn't apply to me.

But, Avidyne will no longer publicly commit to (or comment on) any time frame for releases, new features, new products, etc., until they are actually in the channel and released.

It was great when they did in earlier days, it was interesting to follow along. Unfortunately a few folks gave them enormous grief when dates slipped. So they just won't talk about it.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 11 Dec 2017 at 3:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ptlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2017 at 11:14am
I understand that POV. I have read the posts, having been on here for a while. In the absence of timing data, I would be interested to better understand the nature of the delay. Knowing whether they essentially have the problem solved but the FAA is slow vs they are still wrestling with the engineering is a useful data point. 
Also, given how long it has been, it is a reasonable to ask whether I would be better off downgrading back to sub 10.2 or not...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote glassanza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2017 at 7:13pm
I have to disagree with "O" on this one. Bought 2 540'd that were advertised as plug and play to replace my G boxes and with 10.1 that was a pretty accurate. The enhancements of 10.2 were inviting but unfortunately reduced the functionality of 10.1 with regard to what I wanted the box to do, fly an approach and couple with my legacy autopilot as advertised. The delay in resolving the KFC225 and G500/G600 issue and AHRS failure issue on taxi is unacceptable from a company that based their marketing on reverse engineering of "G" products in order to build a plug and play replacement for 530/430 owners that in my case waited YEARS to receive my replacement. I just installed my 550 upgrade for one of my 540's that was running 10.1 without any issues, synthetic vision is cool but I can get that on my IPad with any number of apps these days so how about we fix these "old" issues first before trying to create the next great marketing upgrade to sell new boxes. Just Saying....    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2017 at 9:44am
I've got 10.1.3 and have been holding out on upgrading to 10.2.0+ until the new issues introduced with 10.2 are resolved. Avionics today is becoming increasingly like IT gear where new software releases add new functionality while sometimes introducing new bugs to what was previously working. Fazit Apple with the rush of 11.x releases within a short time after iOS 11 first came out.

While this is aggravating for customers, it is a fact of life in today's world. Each of us as pilots needs to weigh the risks related to a software upgrade against our own operational requirements. That applies even more so to avionics where for some the negative impact of a software upgrade could easily outweigh the expected benefits. Unfortunately this is not a science, and not everyone's viewpoint is the same. There is a gee-whiz element to new software capabilities (e.g. IFD100 support) that sometimes causes less than carefully considered decisions when changing a running system. Not everything that shines is gold.



Edited by chflyer - 12 Dec 2017 at 9:51am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote glassanza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2017 at 4:21pm
I guess I agree to some degree. I'm not trying to update a IPhone 4 to Apple's current OS, just Avidyne's most current offering to work as advertised. I was a pre-buy guy so my 540 had the initial hardware/software iteration, it continually lost GPS signal in flight and needed a hardware update which I was hesitant to do because I knew I would get the 10.2 update when I sent it in. To get it covered under the Avidyne warranty I had to get it back to them a few weeks ago so I'm sure it has 10.2 installed now. My 550 upgrade was not offered with 10.1 so basically I was forced to take the 10.2 upgrade on both boxes or pay for the 540 hardware upgrade out of pocket which made no sense. Not always the choice of the buyer/owner unfortunately.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ptlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2017 at 4:46pm
This process shouldn't take 3 months let alone the 9 months it's been so far (with no update in sight). I am entirely ignorant of the process, but I do know that the gap between 10.2.0 and 10.2.1 is now a lot longer than it was for the first updates. Again, in the absence of information, I don't know whether that is because the fix in 10.2 is much more challenging than it was in 10.1 or if it's the FAA. Regardless, the bug fix cycle is clearly broken... 
Also, I come back to my original point: the KFC 225 issue was something that we identified in the first version and fixed, so to have it happen in the 10.2 update suggests that perhaps it should be an easy fix (or it was a big oversight to repeat a mistake previously identified and addressed).  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thinwing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 12:18pm
That's exactly my situation..IFD 540//10.2 Garmin 500 ,KFC 225 autopilot.Been interesting taking off into low IMC with the big red X...this of course takes out AP but most importantly disable elec trim on takeoff until aircraft reaches a certain speed....lots of fun.. I am also eagerly waiting fix...however I wonder what other worse acting bugs will be introduced??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jerrywin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2018 at 11:48am
I am also very disappointed  that Avidyne is taking such a long time for fix the G500 bug.  My last contact with Avidyne told me it would be released in October of last year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2018 at 7:13pm
I humbly suggest that Avidyne should perhaps stop off at Pilatus in Buochs when they come over to Europe for AERO in Friedrichshafen in April.

Pilatus "announced" a brand new, clean sheet twin-engine jet aircraft (their first jet aircraft of any size) in 2014 with certification by end-2017 (!!!). That's less than 4 years folks. Last December, right on schedule, they announced that they had received BOTH FAA & EASA type certification and first customer delivery would be this month. Pilatus is not a large company, with about 1800 employees at its HQ. Avidyne has only about 500 employees according to its web site, so perhaps Pilatus could give Avidyne some tips on how to get FAA & EASA approvals on a timely basis and according to plan. It took over 4 years for Avidyne to get the IFD540 out the door after estimating half that, and more than another year after that to get EASA approval for it. The TAS605A has been in the works for more than that and certification is not in sight. These are just avionics boxes, not entire aircraft with all the design, testing and certification paperwork. I can't believe that it's just a question of manpower resources, or am I missing something?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SB Jim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2018 at 9:56am
Avidyne reps,

Can someone please provide an estimate (or even a guess) as to when the bug fix patch might be released?

My 540 was installed 3 years ago (and works great, thanks) but I am reluctant to update the unit (even though I'd like to) until the next release is issued.

Please.

Thank you.

Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2018 at 10:52am
Anyone that knows, can't say; and anyone that says, doesn't know.

* Orest

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote glassanza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2018 at 6:35pm
SB Jim oskrypuch has been in the Avidyne pipeline for a very long time with intel I don't think everyone is privy to from time to time. His last post, mysterious as it may be, doesn't answer a very basic question simply stated "tell me when to expect a software solution to a known problem". My Ipad/phone requires almost daily software update (Foreflight included) to adapt to environmental changes from multiple platforms, yet we wait for months and potentially years from these folks to fix known problems that just seem to keep getting pushed down the road. Some Avidyne supporters will cast blame of the FAA which I understand is deserved, however, I feel confident getting a software update approved is less cumbersome than many other projects the FAA deals with (aircraft) which I read about almost daily in trade rags. As an owner of a stack full of Avidyne boxes I have no regrets with regard to my choices, that being said this new secrecy approach to product information update/release is troubling.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2018 at 7:13pm
My last post wan't really mysterious, but an oft posted aphorism when it comes to non-public projects. Like most companies these days (and unlike before), Avidyne is not going to post about something that is not yet in the release channel.

As for me, I'm just another customer, I don't really have any "special" information access.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 05 Feb 2018 at 7:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote glassanza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2018 at 6:50pm
If we are going down that path maybe "I could tell you but then I would have to kill you" would have been a better response to SB Jim's legitimate question. You may agree with this logic but no response to legitimate questions from owners equates to a company that doesn't give a d%@n about supporting their products short or long term. I'm sure a fix will come out some day regarding this and other issues but I have no confidence that will be the case five years from now and I really hate that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SB Jim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2018 at 9:32pm
10.2.1 is out. Did it resolve the problems?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviTJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2018 at 8:35am
Originally posted by glassanza glassanza wrote:

If we are going down that path maybe "I could tell you but then I would have to kill you" would have been a better response to SB Jim's legitimate question. You may agree with this logic but no response to legitimate questions from owners equates to a company that doesn't give a d%@n about supporting their products short or long term. I'm sure a fix will come out some day regarding this and other issues but I have no confidence that will be the case five years from now and I really hate that.

10.2.1 is officially done!  To be fair, avionics software releases for certified aircraft are complex. Many factors are beyond our control and many others are not.  We've been overly optimistic in the past with release dates and features only to regret advising our customers with our best knowledge at the time. It honestly has nothing to do with, "I could tell you but I'd have to kill you," and has everything to do with not wanting to set false expectations that we may or may not meet.  

We work really hard to support our customers and our products with every resource at our disposal and will continue to do so.  In fact, our recent releases into legacy products of R9, Entegra and EX500/600 MFDs this month has effectively extended the useful life in these products that were initially created long before ADS-B was a topic of conversation. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ptlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2018 at 8:46am
I am pleased to report that my JetPROP had the update installed yesterday and during our test flight I was able to fly coupled vnav on an LNAV+V approach on our G500/KFC225 set up. In addition, I didn't see any issues with the attitude failure during startup and taxi to the runway. So far so good!
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