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Pilot controlled lighting / AWOS |
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comancheguy 
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Joined: 24 Aug 2011 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 160 |
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 Topic: Pilot controlled lighting / AWOSPosted: 16 Jul 2015 at 12:44pm |
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I am having some difficulty getting my awos to "talk back".
We have a superAwos that responds to 3 clicks with weather and 4 clicks with a radio check. I have to be very precise with my clicks neither too fast or too slow with my 540s. My Narco and my 530 worked with no fuss. Not complaining, but is anyone noticing this? I don't like what it portends for PCL. Ken |
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mfb
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Joined: 20 Dec 2014 Location: KATW Status: Offline Points: 293 |
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Posted: 16 Jul 2015 at 1:09pm |
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I had one experience with PCL. I found the same thing - if you clicked too fast the transmitter didn't turn on and it didn't click at all. I was shooting an approach during the day and I'm not sure that I ever did get the approach lights turned on. Mike |
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edanford
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Joined: 21 Nov 2011 Location: Austin Tx Status: Offline Points: 116 |
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Posted: 16 Jul 2015 at 1:42pm |
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I noticed this effect of being very hard to do clicks also on my last flight.
I have my IFD540 as primary only so I do have back up methods but it would be bad to discover this on low IFR approach in the dark. I have a PMA450 / IFD540 combination and did not know which part is at issue. Ed |
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Ed
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pburger
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Posted: 16 Jul 2015 at 1:45pm |
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Interesting. I've noticed a little trouble activating the PCL at my home airport, but I never thought it could be due to my new radio. I have to click very deliberately and very slowly, but not so slow as to miss the 5-second window. Hmmmm......
Edited by pburger - 16 Jul 2015 at 1:45pm |
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Royski
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Posted: 16 Jul 2015 at 4:25pm |
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comancheguy, that sounds like a problem another 540 owner has reported at our airport (VKX). Personally I manage to trigger the SuperAWOS pretty reliably with the 540 though I have to click more slowly than with my older King radios. I'm not sure if it is an issue only of technique or if there is also a variation in equipment.
EDIT: come to think of it, I have a PS Engineering PMA450 and he has the new Avidyne audio panel Edited by Royski - 16 Jul 2015 at 4:27pm |
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Gring
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Joined: 30 Dec 2011 Location: Kingston, NY Status: Offline Points: 722 |
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Posted: 16 Jul 2015 at 4:28pm |
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I have the same issue with both of my IFD540s. I can get AWOS from my home field 2 out of 10 times I try and as mentioned you have to be very precise. It also appears to affect the PCL, but to a lesser degree. I have spoken with Avidyne about it and they have some additional information on the subject.
To be fair, This appears to affect mostly the Potomac SuperAWOS system which currenly has their certification pulled by the FAA and is not an official weather source any longer. They have a much more sensitive PTT recognition method than the PCL boxes. Edited by Gring - 16 Jul 2015 at 4:48pm |
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AviJake
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Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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Posted: 16 Jul 2015 at 4:47pm |
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Agreed. This issue is real.
We are working on a root cause --> solution for this. Very quick (<100ms or 1/10th of a second) clicks are not handled optimally in the 540/440. For all the folks who have seen this, are any of you flying 28V aircraft or are you flying a 14V aircraft? |
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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Gring
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Joined: 30 Dec 2011 Location: Kingston, NY Status: Offline Points: 722 |
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Posted: 16 Jul 2015 at 4:48pm |
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28V
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edanford
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Joined: 21 Nov 2011 Location: Austin Tx Status: Offline Points: 116 |
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Posted: 16 Jul 2015 at 6:22pm |
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28V
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Ed
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AviJake
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Posted: 16 Jul 2015 at 6:27pm |
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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mfb
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Posted: 16 Jul 2015 at 6:35pm |
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14v Mike |
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tony
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Posted: 16 Jul 2015 at 7:21pm |
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I had the same issue, thought it was operator error. I'll try it again this weekend. I'm a 14 volt aircraft.
Edited by tony - 16 Jul 2015 at 7:23pm |
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DavidBunin
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Posted: 16 Jul 2015 at 8:08pm |
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I have used the 540 for PCL precisely once so far, and it worked exactly as expected. But maybe I am a slow clicker? I don't like to machine-gun the PTT button. Five seconds is a LONG time.
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oskrypuch
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Posted: 16 Jul 2015 at 8:12pm |
14v I normally use my #2 radio (SL30) for ground freq/PCL, had real issues trying to get PCL to work with the 540 when I tried it. * Orest |
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pburger
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Posted: 16 Jul 2015 at 8:50pm |
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14V
Our beacon, lights, and PAPI are all on the same PCL circuit. I use the PCL quite a bit. I had noticed a difference, but thought maybe it was due to an upgrade of the lighting equipment. I'll pay closer attention from now on and report back if I think I have any relevant data.
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MysticCobra
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Posted: 16 Jul 2015 at 11:20pm |
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I have not tried to trigger PCL with my IFD540 radio, but one of the first things I noticed the first time I tried it out was the apparent delay in opening the transmission channel after pressing the PTT button on the yoke. It seems like there are several 10s of milliseconds delay there...enough that my normal method of near-simo key-the-mic-and-start-talking caused the first bit of my speech to be clipped.
I think I've mostly trained myself to key, pause, then speak. But it's clear from this thread that I'm not imagining the behavior. I'd sure like to see that behavior improved. 14V
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comancheguytoo
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Joined: 17 Apr 2015 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 29 |
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Posted: 17 Jul 2015 at 1:24am |
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14v for me. Have tried PCL at 6 or 7 fields around SoCal.
I've been discussing with TJ. One of the hardware guys and he looked at it today and there appears to be a slight delay on the software side, in the range of milliseconds, on each mic press. Lines up with a theory Comancheguy had when we discussed. Only problem is the tower guys at my airport said they could hear my squelch breaks, but still didn't see the PCL equipment respond. They were baffeled. TJ gave me the idea of inverting the timing of the clicks. Instead of qucikon-longoff-quickon-longoff...etc, do longon-quickoff-longon-quickoff...etc I'll try and report back when able. Ken, I should see you at OSH on Sat. am |
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comancheguy
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Posted: 26 Jul 2015 at 4:11pm |
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Sorry that I missed you at OSH.
14v for me. Ken
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teeth6
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Posted: 26 Jul 2015 at 7:53pm |
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Wow, I just noticed this thread. I have a 28 volt aircraft and have a really hard time turning on the PCL at my home airport. I thought there was a problem with the equipment at SFZ and reported it to the airport manager. I never thought it might be an issue with the 540s. So what is the suggestion until this is fixed via software. Click at a certain rate?
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AviJake
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Posted: 26 Jul 2015 at 7:56pm |
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Yes, deliberate "slow" clicking just enough to meet the number of clicks required in the maximum time frame (e.g. 5 clicks in 5 full seconds) is what folks report to be a usable technique.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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oskrypuch
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Posted: 27 Jul 2015 at 9:35am |
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.. With a long push (hold) and a short period for the release.
I noticed this last year, but usually use com2 for pcl, so forgot about it. Sorry I didn't report it. * Orest |
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comancheguytoo
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Posted: 28 Jul 2015 at 11:12am |
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Just wanted to respond to the methods for work around. I've tried multiple timings now, including the long press short release suggested by support, and also the timing of clicks, spacing them out as long as possible.
In my application I've not yet been able to activate lights, and I've tried several airports around the country over the last two weeks. I've had several opportunities to make attempts while towers are still manned. Each location, Dane Cty Madison for instance, reports hearing the clicks, but not seeing the lights come on. They also report that the 'sound' of the clicks are the same when I use my Com 2(SL30) to activate the lights. If I'm understanding what I've been told so far, it sounds as though the working theory is that a timing issue exists between the mic button press and the sql break, making the sql not actually 'break' if you click too fast. Assuming the reports from tower personnel are accurate, it would appear that even when the sql does break, the equipment at various locations still does not detect the sql break.
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AviJake wrote: