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roltman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roltman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: WiFi & Bluetooth
    Posted: 24 Jul 2014 at 3:43pm
Okay, cats out of the bag.  Just got an email about Wifi & Bluetooth capability.

Please don't force me to watch a webinar.

Just give us the details.

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ddgates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2014 at 4:21pm
Yes, please, with the pricing of the unlock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FORANE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2014 at 4:37pm
Why am I not getting these emails?
WIFI and bluetooth?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ddgates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2014 at 4:46pm
The webinar is at 1700 Eastern.
David Gates
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2014 at 4:50pm
It will surely be announced formally at OshKosh, but I understand that there are some mighty cool things coming, in the way of connectivity.

* Orest

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2014 at 5:09pm
From their webinar.

The Avidyne logo is RF transparent, behind which is an antenna for both Bluetooth and WiFi connection. The hardware is fully certified with the first release, nothing else to add or buy. The software will be available as a field upload.

They are still holding the capabilities close to their chest, but he said you can imagine the likely capabilities.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 24 Jul 2014 at 5:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2014 at 6:22pm
That's very cool, and I had a feeling that was coming.  

Here's hoping that there is integration with ForeFlight coming real soon now, both for flight plan upload/download, and also for GPS position reporting to the iPad, and hopefully also relay of datalink information.

I hope that this does *NOT* mean that Avidyne is abandoning the Connected Pilot project, although given the current state of Connected Pilot support among other vendors who announced support but have delivered nothing so far (JPI, etc), Avidyne could likely replace all of Aspen's current functionality and then some.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2014 at 7:37pm
I went on vacation as of earlier today so I'm not familiar with what was announced after I left but the 5:09pm Orest post is correct. 

We certified the hardware that is included in every IFD540 we ever ship - that in itself was a big deal.  It is a Wifi and Bluetooth transceiver that is underneath the Avidyne logo on the bezel.     There is no additional charge for this and it does not require any other gear.   The full enablement of this feature when it's certified will come in the form of a software update via the front panel USB port.

We removed the software functionality from the first release last year when it was clear that the internal wireless functionality could derail the cert schedule.     We are actively working the cert effort of the wireless functionality and it will be done as soon as we can get it across the cert finish line.

There are a host of certification issues that concern the FAA with wireless in the cockpit and we are working through all them.   By way of example, we have to come up with a cyber security plan and have it approved by the FAA.   There are other challenges like that.   For this reason, we are not providing an estimated availability date but you can believe it's a very high priority effort for us now.

And then there is the functionality.   We are intentionally holding off on a public description of what the system will do until we have greater confidence on the delivery date for cert.  At least for now, you're going to have to let your imagination run wild - sorry for the unwillingness to provide those details.   Clearly, a connected cockpit is an essential part of a much more capable cockpit.  It's going to be a fun  ride.
Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2014 at 8:16pm
Enjoy your vacation, Steve!

I will simply observe at this point that Aspen's solution has already achieved certification, so supporting it would be beneficial to those of us who have it installed already...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2014 at 9:05pm
I can add that there were two musings by the presenter during the webinar about connectivity, although without any specific commitment ...

"... well, you might connect to other devices like tablets"

"... hot spot connections to a phone are a possibility"

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 24 Jul 2014 at 9:05pm
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tony View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2014 at 6:18am
wouldn't it be awesome if I could connect my IFD540 to a stratus or a skyradar receiver?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MysticCobra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2014 at 7:46am
Since Stratus and Foreflight have made the decision to only play with each other, tying a Stratus to your IFD is unlikely.  However, there are plenty of other portable ADSB receivers out there that could play if Avidyne chooses to support them (and the FAA gets okay with the mix of certified + uncertified devices).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SB Jim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2014 at 1:33pm

Cyber security?

It seems as though the range on the Wi Fi and Bluetooth will be limited to those on board the aircraft.

???



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2014 at 1:39pm
Yes, that was mentioned as one of the big concerns, and that concern is shared by the FAA.

* Orest

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SB Jim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2014 at 1:48pm

Really?

My wife is going to try to muck up our flight?

Hint: She could do that without Wi Fi or Bluetooth.....



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MysticCobra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2014 at 1:54pm
Maybe not.  But the chartered King Air might have someone onboard with different motivations.

Regardless, it's an FAA requirement and arguing its merits or silliness on this forum won't change them.  I appreciate that Avidyne shares such info with us for our awareness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AzAv8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2014 at 2:06pm
And the concern is not necessarily just stopping those with nefarious intent.  Suppose the wifi is open, and Junior's tablet in the back starts trying to Chromecast an HD video to your IFD 540, consuming CPU cycles and perhaps IO bandwidth needed for other functionality.  Your IFD 540 grinds to a halt...

So prudence says: define how you will guard the door, and/or the stuff inside, before you unlock it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2014 at 10:11am
Handling an inadvertent denial of service attack (or for that matter a deliberate attack) is simple.  If the IFD decides it is not happy it can turn off WiFi.  Since all devices connected via WiFi are for situational awareness only this would be a reasonable thing to do to protect the integrity of the certified navigation unit.

It isn't likely that sending a video to the GPS would get far enough to trigger this anyways as it would not be listening on the correct port and even if it were it would not accept the upload request.

Hopefully some software vendors will decide it is in their best interest to integrate with the IFDs.  Garmin's recent tying Pilot to their panel mount equipment means that every GTN or GNS user is being given an incentive to switch from Foreflight or WingX to Pilot.

I wonder if the IFD could offer a web server?  That would work with just about any tablet and at a minimum could provide a big secondary screen.  Input that affects flight could be done only through the IFD if that makes the FAA happy.  If the tablet displays plates or maps Jepp might have something to say about it, though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2014 at 1:05pm

Its just not that simple.  There is no FAR for WIFI or Bluetooth in the cockpit.  So avidyne will have to, along with the FAA, develop an issue paper for what's is going to be needed to demonstrate this function is safe.  If it was just a matter of turning it on, I think they would have done that already. 

So because there is no guidance, they probably elected to remove it from the certified product while they work through the certification issues. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2014 at 5:42pm
Aspen has managed to get it certified with their CG100 and Garmin has with their Flight Stream 210.  The problems are solvable and I'm confident that Avidyne will also solve them.

The questions are when, what capabilities will they expose, and who will provide the clients?

At webinar we were told to imaging the capabilities.  That's a really dangerous thing to tell us.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GMSutton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2014 at 11:11am
Originally posted by MikeK MikeK wrote:

I will simply observe at this point that Aspen's solution has already achieved certification, so supporting it would be beneficial to those of us who have it installed already...

But to use Aspen's Connected Pilot system, you have to install their MFD in addition to (or instead of) their PFD.  Aspen doesn't allow you to upload flight plans via Connected Pilot and confirm them through the PFD.  Many of us have already installed the Aspen EFD1000 Pro but don't necessarily want to install their MFD, so currently we can't use Connected Pilot.

What would be very useful is if the IFD540 could upload flight plans wirelessly (through either the Bluetooth or Wi-Fi interface) from an iPad or other tablet computer.  As you know, ForeFlight is set up to transmit flight plans via the Connected Pilot interface.  It would be very cool if the IFD540 could be used to accept such input in lieu of an Aspen MFD.

Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2014 at 6:38pm
It would be really nice if Avidyne supported Connected Panel on the IFD without requiring Aspen hardware.  That would provide connectivity from most of the major tablet programs, particularly Foreflight and WingX.

However Connected Panel doesn't appear to be an open protocol suite.  The website says that that there are no license or royalty fees associated with the API but it doesn't say someone can sell a CG100 equivalent.

I did notice that Aspen's Connected Pilot application is licensed only for use with Aspen's hardware.

It would be nice if there were an open protocol controlled by a consortium.  I don't know if Aspen plans to let Connected Panel become that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2014 at 11:52pm
Right now, there's pretty slow adoption of Connected Panel -- despite a laundry list of supporting companies, the only actual support I'm aware of is limited flight plan upload in ForeFlight.  I imagine that we'll see some nice new features if Honeywell ever manages to certify the KSN-770.

But, Aspen and Avidyne are both competing against the same 11,000 pound gorilla from Olathe.  It would be in their best interests to continue to push open architectures and open standards.  Here's hoping that they go that route instead of everybody trying to lock all of us into proprietary closed systems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2014 at 7:38am
The KSN 770 is certified.  I don't know if it can use Connected Panel without Aspen's MFD and converter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2014 at 4:22pm
Oh really?  Interesting.  I thought I was supposed to get an email when they achieved cert, but maybe I removed myself after putting in my IFD deposit.

In any event, I just meant that so far (KSN excluded) there was very little you could actually do with the Connected Panel unit.  Upload of flight plans from ForeFlight to GNS-430/530 was it, so far as I know, and that required the CP unit and the MFD as has been observed.  The promised support from other vendors, so far as I'm aware, has never materialized.  

I expected that Aspen would go to some trouble to add additional features that worked with the KSN-770, like being able to nominate frequencies from your tablet (which they demoed back when the CP was first announced).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 94S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2014 at 4:58pm
I am extremely glad to hear that Avidyne has included the WiFi/Bluetooth in the IFD.  I am a long ways from affording an Aspen PFD, much less a MFD.
However, in this thread I've only heard the name Foreflight mentioned.  I hope that Avidyne is talking with other app developers.  I fly with WingX.  I hope that they're included in WiFi/Bluetooth functionality.  I've also sent an email to WingX asking if they are aware of this recent announcement and whether or not are able to upload to panel mount equipment.
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