Avidyne Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Avidyne General > IFD 5 Series & IFD 4 Series Touch Screen GPS/NAV/COM
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - FREE TRANSPONDER OFFER
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

FREE TRANSPONDER OFFER

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Message
pburger View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Dec 2013
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 323
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pburger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: FREE TRANSPONDER OFFER
    Posted: 15 Sep 2014 at 7:50pm
Okay,  I'll just say that I'm a bit disappointed.

I think I'm in for a $10.5K for the IFD-540 with the tray.  I put my money down in 2012 for a 440 and then topped it up for a 540 in 2013.  With a list price of $17K for the 540, I figured the street price would be around $15K, giving me about a 5K discount for prepaying.

My fear was that the street price would actually be down around $12.5K, at which point the $2K saved would probably not be worth sitting on the sidelines all this time.  Well, after certification I was pleasantly surprised to see that the street price (for now) is about $15.6K (based on the national advertisers). Even when I found out that they were shipping new units prior to fulfilling all of the preorders, I was still okay because I had that $5K bonus going for me.

Now, with an offer of a free $4K transponder for someone who just walks up to the counter, my discount or bonus or whatever you want to call it for paying early is diminished considerably.  So, if I want to buy the IFD-540 and an AXP-340 right now, I can shell out $15.6K and get on the list with my installer next week.  Or, I can wait until mid-November to get my unit, pay an additional $4200 for the AMX-340, and have a total cost of $14.7K.  (I'm leaving installation out of this analysis because it will be the same in either case)

Whatever the case, the hook is set, and I'm resigned to waiting it out.  I'm only going to buy the IFD-540.  If I buy the 340, I will just feel foolish for waiting 2-1/2 years to save a grand.

I was willing to buy the full Avidyne suite (240, 340, and 540) if there was any kind of bundled pricing offered, but that question was asked and answered at Oshkosh.

Oh well.  It is what it is, and it ain't what it ain't...  I'll be all smiles again when I get the e-mail/phone call that my unit is ready to go.    
Back to Top
Paul View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 Aug 2012
Location: Massachusetts
Status: Offline
Points: 268
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2014 at 10:45pm
Avidyne's sales/marketing is, to put it politely, weird.

The AXP340 transponder originally had a list price of about $6K.  This was much higher than any of the competition, even the Garmin.  Eventually they dropped it to $4K.  The transponder offer shows the price at $4250 - maybe that includes a tray.

One of the big selling points of the IFD 540 GPS is that it can replace a GNS 530W without wiring changes.  And one of the big selling points of the AXP340 transponder is that it can replace a KT 76A without wiring changes.  However if both are installed the wiring must be changed to connect the GPS to the transponder.  This makes for a strange bundle.

The promotion involves trading in your old transponder.  So it isn't really a $4240 value.  I can't imagine what Avidyne will do with a bunch of random untested transponders.  If I were taking that deal I'd probably go on eBay and buy an old Cessna ARC or Narco transponder to trade in rather than giving them my KT 76C which has more resale value.

I'm an engineer, not a salesman.  But I can't imagine our sales staff willingly passing up an opportunity to upsell a bundle.  And in this business word of mouth is important.  The best advertisement for an IFD is a plane on the field that has one.  And a full Avidyne stack with the audio panel, transponder, and maybe TAWS is a better advertisement than an IFD sitting below a Garmin panel and above a King transponder.  I'm amazed I haven't gotten a phone call telling me that my IFD will ship in a few months, offering help picking an avionics shop, and offering to sell me additional Avidyne stuff at a modest discount.

Reducing the price by roughly 20% two months after start of shipping might cause people to think the IFD is not making the target sales numbers.

And finally, competing with the GTN 750 with tchotchkes like Bluetooth and an inflated price difference (which drops a lot of you don't have TAWS in one but not the other) isn't a winning strategy.  You should be touting your core strengths, such as the hybrid interface, better touch, and FMS.  You should do this consistently - every time.  The message should always be "Our GPS is better".

OK, enough ragging on Avidyne.  Please let me know when my IFD is going to ship.
Back to Top
brou0040 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 588
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brou0040 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 12:38am
So is the free transponer deal available to pre-purchasers?
Back to Top
Keezdisease View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 18 Dec 2013
Location: Maryland
Status: Offline
Points: 15
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keezdisease Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 6:01am
No it's only to new purchasers. I called today and they said the box will ship in a week to 10 days if you order now. Really frustrating as I am in month three and they still can't tell me when I'm going to get my units that I paid for almost three years ago. I think it is a bum wrap and my confidence in Avidyne is quickly diminishing to nothing. When I called they said that all month one orders have been filled but all the people I know of still haven't heard from them on ship dates. Furthermore when I spoke to sales today they still can't give a date for my units to ship. This is all so frustrating because lip service solves nothing but helping to lose satisfied customers.
Back to Top
MysticCobra View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 504
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MysticCobra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 8:13am
There are plenty of us on the pre-buy list who are anxious to get our units.  Are you saying that you know people with month one dates who haven't been contacted by Avidyne for shipping arrangements?  At least some month one folks have gotten their units, because they've posted here about them.

As for dates, Steve posted dates two weeks ago for how the production months lay out:  http://www.avidynelive.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=238&PID=3467&title=ifd540-certification-status#3467

Are you saying that's not good enough and you want them to identify on which specific date unit x will ship out the door 4-8 weeks from now?


Edited by MysticCobra - 16 Sep 2014 at 8:14am
Back to Top
AviJake View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Location: Lincoln MA
Status: Offline
Points: 2815
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 8:40am
Month 1 has NOT been completed, despite what anyone may have been told.  I can't find any sales guys who admit to sending this message but we know there are still Month 1 folks who have not been contacted or have had their units shipped yet.   That crew is trying to work their way through the list.

That being said, it is not reasonable for Month 3 folks to expect a specific ship date at this point.    The Sales/Ops folks are trying to knock out the rest of Month 1 and early Month 2 people right now.
Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com
Back to Top
bellanca1730a View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 04 Jul 2013
Location: SoCal
Status: Offline
Points: 59
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bellanca1730a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 9:04am
Most of the criticism on these boards has struck me as at least a little premature. I have consistently felt that the critics should sit back and give Avidyne a chance POST-certification to make good on their promises and build up their brand equity as a company that takes care of its customer base.

Smart business would have been to deliver units to early adopters first. That would have sent a huge message about customer loyalty that even new customers would appreciate.

Instead, this new offer effectively says there is no particular value in having been an early adopter, as without the incentive of time (getting our units before the general public) the only remaining incentive is money (getting better discounts than the general public). I'm getting a very different message about customer loyalty.

I'd say it's novice on the part of your sales and marketing folks, but the fact that management didn't kill the idea suggests that either your management team is short-sighted or the company is in financial trouble.

This is just bad.
Sean Andrews
Bellanca Super Viking
Back to Top
AviJake View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Location: Lincoln MA
Status: Offline
Points: 2815
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 9:17am
I'm part of the management team - not sure I follow the leap to being in financial  trouble.  I'm not that bright and I could be short sighted and not even know about but....

Our plan from the very first day the pre-buy plan was conceived was that 1/2 of all monthly shipments would go out to pre-buy folks who got the substantial price break and 1/2 of all monthly shipments go out to new buyers at the much higher price.  If you think of the costs of building these units, that makes perfect and complete sense.   We also knew that production ramp up would take a while and that's why we used the "full-rate production" term.  It could be argued that we haven't hit full-rate yet but we are keenly aware that early folks have been waiting a long time and are highly anxious to get their IFDs so we tried to declare the month definitions as noted above.  We do not share the opinion that somehow this screws over the pre-buy folks.   Month 3 folks are still getting their units in month 3 of production. Month 5 folks in month 5, etc, etc, etc.

The above paragraph sounds defensive and it is.  It's also the truth and reality and addresses the #1 critique of the online participants.    Would we like every single pre-buy person to have their unit tomorrow?  You bet!   Can we do that?  No chance - we need to stick with the monthly deliveries per the agreements to keep operations smooth and predictable from a company perspective.  That will make everything work out better in the longer term too.
Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com
Back to Top
ddgates View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Location: Deer Valley
Status: Offline
Points: 965
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ddgates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 9:59am
Avidyne is delivering on the letter of what they agreed to do; so far, not a lot more, and not with a lot of perceived "love" for the prepurchase group, but this is after all a business relationship.

The free TXP offer , coming out just after I paid for one, is very disappointing.  It seems like a second advantage program, without the 3 year delay part.

I have my units.  They should install this week.  

Time for me to move on...


David Gates
Back to Top
Keezdisease View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 18 Dec 2013
Location: Maryland
Status: Offline
Points: 15
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keezdisease Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 10:40am
Jake
I certainly didn't make up the information about your sales guy making the statement that all month 1 people's order had been filled. My point is and was this. After several calls and emails to sales with them stating that someone would get back to me on the delivery month, not specific day, but the month, no one has made that call or email. It is rather frustrating when someone is holding 30,000.00 of your money and state that three months after cert you will get your unit when here we are two months after cert and one month isn't filled yet the street buyer is a week out. Frustrating yes. I would compare at as being an early buyer for a new car and them holding your money then only filling half of the prebuy orders. Then selling to the public on a first come basis the other half. My view on this is several people partnered with avidyne on this project and now that you have gotten certification all we want to know is a concise timeframe because obviously month three doesn't mean to is what avidyne thinks it is. Very very frustrating as was the refund process that took four months. I'm not being a trouble maker but I will not be made out to being unreasonable as I didn't write your sales agreement I only read it and signed it. Month three means 90 days after cert not 90 days up to half of production.
Back to Top
bellanca1730a View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 04 Jul 2013
Location: SoCal
Status: Offline
Points: 59
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bellanca1730a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 10:49am
Short-sighted = you are so focused on incentivizing new customers that you fail to appreciate the customer-service impact to your existing customers. And btw, I haven't been critical of the half-and-half production allocation until this latest offer which further erodes, if not eliminates, the early adoption incentive. It may be within the legal bounds of our agreements, but it certainly is outside the spirit of them - and I'm telling you this latest move does not engender goodwill among your early adopter base.

Financial trouble = if you were aware of the above and did it anyway, what other explanation would you offer?

Feedback is a gift. The easier thing for a dissatisfied customer to do is remain silent and take his business elsewhere. So you can assume a defensive posture if you like, but the company has created a customer-service dilemma. The wise move at this point would be to listen and address with more than rhetoric these legitimate customer concerns among customers who have already demonstrated loyalty to the company.
Sean Andrews
Bellanca Super Viking
Back to Top
AviJake View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Location: Lincoln MA
Status: Offline
Points: 2815
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 11:41am
"Feedback is a gift."  Agreed.

That is exactly why this forum exists (and for product Q&A).   I run Product Development here and I try to answer every single question and any other post the is looking for a response.

I'm told over and over this is not a great idea (except by the competition who love coming here to learn what they can and act accordingly) but I'm not going to stop because I think it is a great idea, despite my, and its, communication challenges.   There is a lot of dirty laundry that gets aired here and while it's surely not pleasant, it's a hugely worthwhile effort.

I'm sure the belief that Avidyne is in financial trouble will never go away.  We've been accused of that uncountable times over the past 20 years so that one, I'm just going to start ignoring - that's not feedback, just an unfounded assertion.

I'm embarrassed if my posts have made someone feel like they're being called out as unreasonable or troublemakers or whatever - that must be my lack of communication skill.  Don't know what else to say about that one.

The Sales/Ops crew here are working to improve our customer service as fast and as hard as they can.  We are listening and any proof of that will be in Acta non Verba.    Let's see what we can do.

Keep the feedback coming, please.  It makes a difference even if you don't think it's getting through.


Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com
Back to Top
jblodgett View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 57
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jblodgett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 12:39pm
Steve,

After three years of waiting for my IFD-540 this is an almost unbelievable slap in the face to the early adopters who funded the development.  I believe with this move Avidyne will have destroyed whatever remaining goodwill there was between the company and the early adopters.  No amount of defensive posturing will change that situation. 
Back to Top
Keezdisease View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 18 Dec 2013
Location: Maryland
Status: Offline
Points: 15
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keezdisease Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 12:42pm
Only feedback I have is this.
Can the company tht is holding thirty thousand dollars of my money give me a definitive month related to what month three means in normal terms so I can plan accordingly. Certification took place in early August. Why can't Avidyne tell me (us) the month in which I am to receive my units. I would think based on contract that October would be that month.
Back to Top
AviJake View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Location: Lincoln MA
Status: Offline
Points: 2815
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 12:58pm
I thought we did back on 2 September with this post in the IFD540 Certification Status thread:

Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

I think that's close to reality.

Month 1 = 15 Aug - 15 Sep
Month 2 = 16 Sep - 15 Oct
Month 3 = 16 Oct - 15 Nov
Month 4 = 16 Nov - 15 Dec

We will be motivated to make those slots for revenue generation issues to slippage past  the holiday is possible due to any unknown unknowns that might pop up but that is not likely.  (I realize you used "installation" not "shipping" so that's a reasonable assumption on your part).

We restarted shipments last week after we made those manufacturing process improvements.

Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com
Back to Top
ddgates View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Location: Deer Valley
Status: Offline
Points: 965
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ddgates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 3:32pm
Steve:

I suspect (no, actually I am sure) that your transparency has been what kept most of us in the Avidyne fold over the last 3 years, and you communicate well.

Myself included (I confess) I believe that expectations around this prepurchase program were set at too high a level.  Some of that Avidyne did.  Some of that, we did to ourselves.

It was and is, in fact, a discount.  I did the math to see what kind of discount it turns out to be:

I used the DJI as a comparison for the time value of money.  Having done so, allowing for 21% appreciation over the last 3 years I've had a deposit with you, and assuming you are selling the IFD540s at 12.5K now, and the AXP340 at $3.3K, I saved 15%.  Had the IFDs come to market in a year, that savings would have been 22%.  So, the two years longer delay cost me 7%.   Those numbers are somewhat better if your current price is > 12.5K. 

Not the huge savings I had wanted, but a savings nonetheless.

The meaningful question in this regard would be "Was a 15% cost savings worth three years?"  No way to quantify that.

One last thought - I think in part the Avidyne going broke theme may arises in part from all the "if we go bankrupt before delivery...." content in the prepurchase agreement.

I'd still buy a DFC90 if you would get me servos.....<G>
David Gates
Back to Top
SB Jim View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Aug 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 138
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SB Jim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 5:09pm

Avidyne could salvage a some customer goodwill from the early adopters (I'm one; month 2 is my scheduled month to receive a 540) by offering us some type of deal on a transponder, audio panel, etc.

I'm listening. Make me an offer I can't refuse. I've already bet on Avidyne once.

Jim

Back to Top
oskrypuch View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Location: CYFD
Status: Offline
Points: 2399
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 6:23pm
Upthread, that was an interesting depreciation suggestion, of following the DOW, but not very realistic. No one knows where the DOW could/would go. I think that taking the "cost of money" as 5% would be more fair.

But, for the restless natives, here is a suggestion. How about 50% off a transponder, or 30% off an audio panel, if purchased to ship with the prebuy 540 units. Offer valid until 30 Oct, must be paid by then.

Just a thought! ;-)

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 16 Sep 2014 at 6:27pm
Back to Top
ddgates View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Location: Deer Valley
Status: Offline
Points: 965
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ddgates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 6:58pm
The Dow was the most readily available index I could lay hands on - my investments are beating that, so the Dow IS fair, but using a 5% compounded over three years also works; it's all time value of money, just what index you use for comparator.


David Gates
Back to Top
glassanza View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 2013
Location: Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 98
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote glassanza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 7:14pm
It is very sad to see some of the true long haulers (ddgates, paul, brou0040) second guessing their decision to make the pre-buy investment when the mission is all but complete. I think this thread shows the true character of David Gates, a person I know only from this forum, and I commend David for biting his lip because I get the feeling he has more to say with regard to the 340 promotion. You know things are in the toilet when Orest has to come cheerlead for support for Avidyne, maybe someone should take note of that ...I have to agree with ddgates initial statement, it's a business thing as it should be. Pre-buyers typically will not buy another 540 down the road so new business has to be the focus for Avidyne moving forward. With regard to Steve's comments, first you seemed to get a little pissed about the rocks being thrown at management and included yourself as a part of that team then indicated that you were just heading up product development. To your credit (and it's a big credit) I believe you have made an effort to answer all questions raised on this forum and that is appreciated. So here we are, possible lack of disclosure about not filling all the pre-buys before selling retail and retail packages which appear to diminish the value of the early investment. More rocks hurled at Avidyne's financial fortitude which as we all know is unfounded, companies don't go out of business...they reorganize thanks to bankruptcy protection and come out the other side debt free as an LLC or some other corporate derivative...God Bless America, we need it now more than ever.      
GDC25
Back to Top
ddgates View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Location: Deer Valley
Status: Offline
Points: 965
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ddgates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 7:32pm
Glassanza:

No sir, it is you who demonstrates character, but your comments are appreciated.

At the end of this journey, I conclude that all of us bought into this thinking we would get a "deal" - and to some degree we have, or will, when units are delivered to us all.

I sense some grumblings because the deal doesn't turn out to be quite as good as we had expected; in truth, not many are.

There has been way too much dual messaging, leading to rancor and distrust.  Avidyne should learn from this.  This would make a good HBR case for pre-production marketing, and post production management.

I would not have done the free transponder promo this close to STC with many sensitive nerves exposed. but that's just me.

I hope everybody gets what they want out of this; I hope the product is good, and I also hope that Avidyne handles the post delivery phase of software upgrades with some deference to the history of this release.

To paraphrase Maverick (about AviJake), he could be my wingman any time; I've seen no disingenuous intent from him at all, and he deserves a comment about his character as well.


David Gates
Back to Top
tony View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Location: Atlanta
Status: Offline
Points: 439
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 9:08pm
Steve, I do believe that if it had not been for you and this board, I would have bailed more than a year ago.  You kept this thing going and your transparency has been outstanding.  There are some aspects of the company (sales) that are less than stellar.   I vote they promote you from vice president of product development to president of the company so you can fix this mess.  I have no doubt you'd fix it. 
Back to Top
MysticCobra View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 504
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MysticCobra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 9:58pm
For what it's worth, Avidyne has been holding my money for two years.  When I put my money down, I knew I taking a huge risk.  The compensation for that was a significant discount on the unit, and a refund clause in the contract.

To date, the only thing Avidyne has done that is different from my initial discussion with the sales rep is slip the delivery date.

I knew when I bought that that was a risk.  It didn't then, and doesn't now, bother me.  I appreciate Avidyne's strong attempts to communicate with their customers (and their competitors and anyone else who happens to read this public forum) throughout the process so that those of us with skin in the game had a fair idea of what was going on.

I'm happy to see that the production line is running.  I look forward to getting my unit in a couple of months.

Not everyone on the wait list is disgruntled or has lost their goodwill toward Avidyne.

In my mind, the true test will be in the next few years.  Will the box be robust and reliable?  Will the data subscriptions remain affordable?  Will new features and capabilities be added to the unit in a timely fashion and for reasonable fees?

Those things, for me, will carry far more weight in determining my long-term satisfaction with Avidyne.
Back to Top
oskrypuch View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Location: CYFD
Status: Offline
Points: 2399
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 10:48pm
Often, good things come to those who are patient.

And hats off to Steve, for staying calm, forthcoming and a true gentleman.

* Orest

P.S. ..
I WANT MY IFD540!




Edited by oskrypuch - 16 Sep 2014 at 11:42pm
Back to Top
Paul View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 Aug 2012
Location: Massachusetts
Status: Offline
Points: 268
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 10:58pm
Steve,

I have never suggested that Avidyne was in financial trouble or bankrupt here or in any other forum.  I only meant to say what I thought was obvious - if these things were selling like, say, the iPhone 6 Avidyne wouldn't be discounting them so soon after introduction.

I'm probably still a bit bummed that the salesman who contacted me last November never got back to me with answers to my questions.  If he did he probably would have sold me an Avidyne audio panel at the discount price.  I suppose I should have tried to contact him again but frankly it is not the job of the customer to chase the salesman.  I've gotten the answers since from this forum and from reading the pilot's guides and installation manuals.

As to whether this forum is a good idea, without it we probably would have bailed when the initial ship date wasn't met.  If your competition is reading this they're probably thinking "I wish my company had the cojones to run an open forum".  It would be really nice if Avidyne's sales and marketing managers would participate - we'll try to be polite, really.

Glassanza,

I'm not planning to bail.  From what I've seen the IFD 540 is the best General Aviation GPS ever.  I originally picked it because it was the largest display that would fit in our panel but as the documentation became available we could see how well designed and powerful it is.

But they missed their month one date.  This is the first major avionics upgrade for our plane since we purchased it.  I need to pick a shop to do the work.  I used to build military prototype equipment - I'm fussy about wiring.  Before I start talking to avionics installers I want to feel confident that I know when they can do the installation.  And I don't have that feeling yet.

David,

As far as Steve being a wingman, I'm told he used to fly a Warthog.  Compared to that, dealing with us is probably a walk in the park.
Back to Top
brou0040 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 588
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brou0040 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 11:14pm
I think the problem is that since my pre-purchase agreement, there has been very little except disappointment - none of them really huge, but they have compounded.

Delivery schedule is obvious, but that was supposed to be offset by unannounced features that we were "sold."  Wifi may be one, but that's all I can think of at the moment, and it's not yet functional.

We've been told that an update letter from the COO was promised, that full rate would be as soon as certification, that efficiencies were found in the production line and everybody moved up, etc - none of which have become reality.

Now we have to wait for full price month allocations to sell out before moving on to the next month's pre-purchase units - or it seems, and the value of our pre-purchase has diminished.  Now I'm more or less expecting something else will come up that doesn't live up to expectations.

I'm also not a fan when I get a defensive response saying my words are not exactly what Avidyne has said in the past.  If we're going to stick with exactly what was said and not the way things have been going, then I'd have been flying around with my unit for quite some time.  At this point I think Avidyne needs to start proving negative comments wrong  by doing good on what they say and work on rebuilding customer confidence rather than playing defense.
Back to Top
roltman View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 04 Aug 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 173
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roltman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 11:24pm

I too have to agree with ddgates (granted my month 1 unit was delivered at 9:42am today). As for the comment about slapping (my words) pre-purchaser by announcing this this discount, I provided Avidyne with data on my panel and they know full well I still have one Garmin 430W and a 330 XPNDR in my plane.  I put my toe in the water over 3yrs ago with the full intention of evaluating this unit before I dove in head first with a complete panel. I don't know how many others did what I did, but I am intrigued as a pre-purchaser by the offer, and it may influence how quickly I make up my mind.  As a result this latest offer has my interests and who knows what'll happen after my 700nm trip home this Friday from my avionics shop.

Thank you Steve for your support, and I have confidence you'll lead this project into the future.

Back to Top
oskrypuch View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Location: CYFD
Status: Offline
Points: 2399
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 11:44pm
Quote (granted my month 1 unit was delivered at 9:42am today).

Let's hear ALL about it, soon!

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 16 Sep 2014 at 11:46pm
Back to Top
etekberg View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 04 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 14
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote etekberg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2014 at 8:21am
Month 1 has come and gone, and still no delivery.  Yet I understand from your own words that you are still shipping units for sales?  Why does Avidyne treat me like such crap?

Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

I thought we did back on 2 September with this post in the IFD540 Certification Status thread:

Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

I think that's close to reality.

Month 1 = 15 Aug - 15 Sep
Month 2 = 16 Sep - 15 Oct
Month 3 = 16 Oct - 15 Nov
Month 4 = 16 Nov - 15 Dec

We will be motivated to make those slots for revenue generation issues to slippage past  the holiday is possible due to any unknown unknowns that might pop up but that is not likely.  (I realize you used "installation" not "shipping" so that's a reasonable assumption on your part).

We restarted shipments last week after we made those manufacturing process improvements.

Back to Top
Gary T View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 13 Nov 2013
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 78
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2014 at 11:31am
I suspect that Avidyne is having difficulty finding buyers for the full price 540 ( first months
production ) and sales of the transponder may be slow as well.
We have received a substantial discount on the early offer.  I think Avidyne may well need to
provide an incentive for the full price 540 by offering the transponder for free rather
than discounting the price of the 540. 
Gary-T
Back to Top
ddgates View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Location: Deer Valley
Status: Offline
Points: 965
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ddgates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2014 at 12:10pm
I would suggest it would be a good gesture for Avidyne to make some sort of discount offer on the TXP to early adopters of the 540 (perhaps a bundle with the comm panel) if they have not already quietly done so.

David Gates
Back to Top
wingmate88 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Location: CA35
Status: Offline
Points: 3
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wingmate88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2014 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by ddgates ddgates wrote:

I would suggest it would be a good gesture for Avidyne to make some sort of discount offer on the TXP to early adopters of the 540 (perhaps a bundle with the comm panel) if they have not already quietly done so.


+1
Max
Back to Top
oskrypuch View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Location: CYFD
Status: Offline
Points: 2399
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2014 at 8:06pm
Well asking is always Ok!

* Orest
Back to Top
Cascade View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 14 Aug 2013
Location: Eugene
Status: Offline
Points: 11
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cascade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2014 at 9:01pm
What was the Biblical parable about the laborers who arrived late in the day being paid the same as those who showed up early?  Early and late workers were given exactly what they were promised and both willingly accepted the deals they were offered; but the early guys working in the sun all day couldn't stand it, felt insulted, and grumbled when the latecomers were treated with generosity.  It's awkward to shake hands on a deal, and then gripe later when somebody else shakes hands on a different deal. 
Cascade
Back to Top
Gring View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Dec 2011
Location: Kingston, NY
Status: Offline
Points: 534
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2014 at 9:10am
It was the "Parable of the workers in the Vineyard" and illustrates the point well.
Back to Top
bellanca1730a View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 04 Jul 2013
Location: SoCal
Status: Offline
Points: 59
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bellanca1730a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2014 at 9:35am
Perhaps ... if Avidyne is God's Messiah and their units give eternal life ... no? ... then maybe this is business, and good business is a finessed balance of legal agreements and customer service.

I agree with the sentiment expressed earlier in this thread, that I bet on Avidyne once and I am willing to bet on them again. I offered some feedback, Steve clearly articulated that Avidyne is listening and I now am eager for their considered response.
Sean Andrews
Bellanca Super Viking
Back to Top
ddgates View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Location: Deer Valley
Status: Offline
Points: 965
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ddgates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2014 at 10:34am
Guys, after all, it is an avionics purchase, not a morality play.
David Gates
Back to Top
TurboPA30 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2010
Location: 27XS
Status: Offline
Points: 106
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurboPA30 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2014 at 4:12pm
Steve,
having been one of the people that waited more than 3 years for my 4 units, I would like to suggest the following:
1) The warranty period for us should be extended by the time we waited longer than the initial promise (i.e. a good 2 years)
2) There should be some special offer for us to buy additional Avidyne kit, like TWX670, AXP340, MLX770 etc.
The ones that held out for so long are invaluable ambassadors for the brand, and should be appropriately rewarded.
Thanks for your consideration
Robert
Back to Top
Jrlumpp View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 08 Feb 2014
Location: NY
Status: Offline
Points: 45
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Jrlumpp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2014 at 8:51pm
Great point made robert
Back to Top
SB Jim View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Aug 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 138
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SB Jim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2014 at 9:31am
Many of us have been acting as valuable ambassadors for Avidyne, defending our decision to pre-buy an IFD 540 against the legion of Garmin followers who seemingly have bashed our decision on a weekly basis for the past 3 years.
Back to Top
pburger View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Dec 2013
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 323
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pburger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2014 at 11:44am
Originally posted by SB Jim SB Jim wrote:

Many of us have been acting as valuable ambassadors for Avidyne, defending our decision to pre-buy an IFD 540 against the legion of Garmin followers who seemingly have bashed our decision on a weekly basis for the past 3 years.

This is very true.  I have been taking abuse for quite some time from my Garmin fanboy friends.  I explain all the cool features that the IFD-540 has, and they say, "well where is it?".  

Garmin v. Avidyne (and all others) reminds me of Apple v. Android.  Android phones are cutting edge -- better screens, better cameras, more features, but there are still people that want an iPhone because it is an iPhone ("...but it's an iPhone!").  It really is an uphill battle.  I think one of the best (if not THE best) tools at Avidyne's disposal is word of mouth.  Seeing is believing.  

I went to an FAA safety seminar last month about ADS-B.  The presenter was a Garmin rep.  He did a decent job of explaining what ADS-B is, the requirements, the mandate, etc.  However, all of the solutions were Garmin.  I'm paraphrasing, but the general message was: "You need a 330ES for the ADS-B OUT.  You'll need a panel-mount box, either a 430W or 530W, or a 650 or 750 for the position source.  You then need a GDL-88 for the IN."  I finally couldn't take it and raised my hand.  I brought up the point that there are other manufacturers out there.  I mentioned FreeFlight, and I also mentioned AVIDYNE.  I mentioned that Avidyne has a 1090ES transponder, and that Avidyne's panel-mount unit (the 540) can serve as a position source and thus meet the mandate.  The Garmin guy probably wasn't too happy, but this was supposed to be an FAA-sponsored safety seminar, not a Garmin sales presentation.

My point is that we are the early adopters, we are on the front lines.  We are Avidyne's best sales tool.  We have plopped down our cash and we really, really want the Avidyne unit to be the best thing since sliced bread.  We want to sing the praises of Avidyne.  We want our decision to stick it out to be validated.  

I hesitated to mention this earlier, because I thought it was a little too whiny or bitchy, but at Oshkosh this year, I almost felt like I was dismissed when I mentioned I had put my money down two years ago.  I don't need a pat on the back or to be coddled, or whatever, but I just felt like I got the cold shoulder from the rep after that.  I asked about the possibility of some kind of show discount for buying  a transponder and audio panel and was told no, and that was that.  I was ready to write a check if there was even a little bit of a discount.  Now, I've sworn off paying extra for the Avidyne logo on those other boxes.  My brand loyalty could have been cemented at that point, but it was eroded a little bit.  When I heard that half of all units produced would go to walk-up buyers, it was eroded a bit more.  And the transponder offer to walk-up buyers has eroded it even more.

As I said earlier, once I get my box, I'll be all smiles again.  It's just a freakin' airplane radio, after all.

   


Edited by pburger - 19 Sep 2014 at 1:29pm
Back to Top
tony View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Location: Atlanta
Status: Offline
Points: 439
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2014 at 4:20pm
pburger, very well said
Back to Top
Paul View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 Aug 2012
Location: Massachusetts
Status: Offline
Points: 268
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2014 at 11:02pm
pburger,

I suggest you buy the audio panel that best suits your aircraft and your mission.  There are some real differences between the various panels available.

I've read the pilot's guides for the ones I think are contenders and parts of the installation manuals to clarify some details.  If I can get my notes into a coherent form I'll post them in the AMX 240 section of the forum.
Back to Top
MikeK View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 16 Sep 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 87
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2014 at 1:06am
Hi Steve,

Above, you wrote that Month 1 isn't completed yet, and that it was "not reasonable" to expect specific dates for Month 3 shipments.

But in response to Keezdisease's question about Month 3 you referenced an old post:

Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

I thought we did back on 2 September with this post in the IFD540 Certification Status thread:

Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

I think that's close to reality.

Month 1 = 15 Aug - 15 Sep
Month 2 = 16 Sep - 15 Oct
Month 3 = 16 Oct - 15 Nov
Month 4 = 16 Nov - 15 Dec


If Month 1 isn't done yet, even though it's after 15 September, what are the implications on the later months?  Are you expecting to catch up to the dates you posted above?
Back to Top
MysticCobra View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 504
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MysticCobra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2014 at 1:25am
On 16 Sept, Steve posted:
Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

The Sales/Ops folks are trying to knock out the rest of Month 1 and early Month 2 people right now.
He didn't explain why Month 1 wasn't complete.  Might be because units weren't available to ship; might be because folks were hard to track down or hadn't selected an avionics shop to do the work.  Dunno.

But if they were starting into Month 2 shipments as of Sept 16, then that's consistent with the schedule he posted.
Back to Top
AviJake View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Location: Lincoln MA
Status: Offline
Points: 2815
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2014 at 8:08am
Yes, when I posted those dates, I also noted that it would likely take us a few weeks of Month 2 to catch up with Month 1 folks and that's still the expectation.  We do expect to catch up with those posted dates.

I'm not saying this is the case for all of the Month 1 folks by any means but yes, there are lot of people who are still trying to figure out when and where they want the install done.   We also had that slow ramp up in the factory for the first few weeks as we were trying to increase the efficiency of the factory build up/check out processes which meant there were very few units available.   That seems to be sorting itself out nicely now.
Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com
Back to Top
Keezdisease View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 18 Dec 2013
Location: Maryland
Status: Offline
Points: 15
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keezdisease Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2014 at 10:22am
The latest kick in the teeth for me is this. I bought my boxes with racks and connectors. I have a pending sale on my airplane and of course I can't even get one of my boxes. I asked my installer to call avidyne and spoke with them myself as well to at least get one unit or a rack kit. We were told No. We asked if we could but a new avidyne and get one of my rack kits as Garmin has told there dealers if they install a 540 in a garmin rack they will strip them of their dealership. Avidyne told us no on the rack. We asked if I could then get a box and rack at retail and they said we will have it in a week. Talk about a squeeze play. I have no choice but to buy the retail box. Congrats avidyne you sold me three prebuys and one retail box just so I can sell my airplane. I'm glad they are working with us.....not.
Back to Top
brou0040 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 588
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brou0040 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2014 at 11:20am
Can you explain how not accepting your unit in your given month affects the delivery schedule and the reliability of getting the unit when you plan to receive it?

For example, I assume several people may not want to receive their unit at the moment Avidyne is able to supply it since we have no way to plan for it and may choose to delay the unit until it is more convenient for them to put their airplane down in the shop.

If I I get contacted for my month 2 delivery, I'm most likely going to say hold on to it until later, I'll let you know when it's in the shop.  Once I'm past my anticipated delivery, I'd expect that my unit would be immediately available for shipment at a later date and not have to wait for some other delivery schedule.

Can you shed some light on how this would play out?
Back to Top
AviJake View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Location: Lincoln MA
Status: Offline
Points: 2815
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2014 at 11:38am
Right, all I was trying to do was to both respond to MysticCobra's question/speculation and to note that just takes time for our reps on the phones to reach that Month 1 person and then often several calls and days of determination that they'd like to delay their unit ship dates.   All perfectly fine, just part of the slow-speed process.   I'm not trying to overstate the significance of that example, just point out it's real and one of many reasons why the deliveries are not lightning fast.

We're building (or trying to build) the units in much closer to a "just in time" method as opposed to the more expensive "build up a ton of inventory and store them on the shelves" method.  Therefore, it's entirely possible, especially in these first few months, that a Month 2 customer's unit won't be sitting on the shelf and immediately available if they deferred shipment and then say in Month 3, decide now is the time.
Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com
Back to Top
SB Jim View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Aug 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 138
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SB Jim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2014 at 11:40am
Jake,

Regarding installation, it's a catch 22. I contacted 3 or 4 shops earlier this year regarding installation estimates and none replied.

Presumably that is because the 540 wasn't certified.

I'm slated for month 2 but don't know when that will really occur. It's hard to shop for an installer when I really have no idea when I'll get the box.

I'll recontact some shops this week and see where that leads, but I'm guessing they'd rather spend their time on business that is more certain.

The sooner I can get a real ship date out of you guys the sooner I can get a shop to commit.

Regards, Jim
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.117 seconds.