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MLB FIS-B Wx "Unavailable"

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n7ifr View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 Dec 2015 at 10:05am
Finally after the recent MLB Service Bulletins (v4.0.9 installed last week), traffic and C.B re-cycling problems fixed, for the most part...

However, since the MLB- S.B.'s, very frustrating, the FIS-B Weather is "unavailable". Most recent configuration now is:
 . TAS605 Traffic --> dual Aspens + 540#1 - works fine!
.  MLB100 Traffic---> 540#2 - Works fine!
.  MLB Wx -------> 540 #1 & 540#2 - Wx "Unavailable"!

However, even before last week's install of dual 540, I have been unable to see any ADSB Wx (coincidently since first MLB S.B.), despite intermittent traffic. 

Installer "swears" everything configured OK, but this is pretty weird - Is this perhaps related to some configuration conflict with iPad - ForeFlight WiFi also receiving traffic & Wx from ground stations?

I am ready to push for a "new" MLB unit or send back as defective as last resort.

Any wisdom or ideas appreciated.

Tom Wolf
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2015 at 11:34am

When you look at the AUX page for the weather features (the legend) what does it say for service level at the bottom of the first section? Mine says "ADS-B Wx" or something like that. What service level (or subscription) does your IFD expect?

I don't have a screen shot, but it's the page that shows you how old each piece of data is.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n7ifr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2015 at 12:07pm
I will have to look on next flight, but I assume you mean:
Alert-->SYS-->Select DataLink:
So under Age in Minutes: if it in fact says "not received", then what??

Tom
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2015 at 8:29am

That is the page, but I'm not asking about the age of any particular data.  (I am trying to attach an image here, but it isn't working again.  Grrr.)

Look at the Datalink Status Page in the Pilot's Guide (page 4-54 in my 'Change 2' copy).  The Service Level is shown at the bottom right of the Age-in-Minutes block.  In their example, the Service Level is "Professional".

In my airplane, the Service Level is "ADS-B Wx".

I can't recall specifically if this indication is available to me on the ground.  I think it is, but not sure.

Step #1 for you is to determine if the IFD is getting the service.  Then we can work on troubleshooting  the features within that service.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n7ifr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2015 at 10:16am
David,
Attached are my 540#1 and #2 (only #2 pic attached) outside hangar, but on ground.  Both show errors "Traffic Sensor Fault" and NO Service at all.

As an aside, in your referenced manual page (4-54) I notice it shows "Aviator Pro"... I assume XM Satellite Wx.  

I am pretty frustrated with this MLB/NavWorx box, and considering returning the unit and going with more reliable XM (which has its own pros & cons too). 

Tom Wolf
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2015 at 9:58am

Originally posted by n7ifr n7ifr wrote:

As an aside, in your referenced manual page (4-54) I notice it shows "Aviator Pro"... I assume XM Satellite Wx.  

I would make the same assumption.  I don't think they had an ADS-B product available when they first wrote (and made screen shots for) the pilot's guide for the IFD.

At this point we may need Jake to chime in with what the indication should be for our planes while on the ground.  I think that mine says "ADS-B Wx" even on the ground.  (I know it says that in the air.)  Since yours doesn't, my guess is that the serial port configuration is not correct.

I know you're frustrated, and for good reason, but I would tell you to hang in there.  This system can work in your airplane, because it works in mine.  It's just a matter of getting everything set up right.

In your airplane, which IFD serial data port is receiving the weather data?  Which 429 port is receiving the traffic data?  Are the two IFDs wired the same, or differently?

David Bunin

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2015 at 10:02am
Hey Tom, where are you located in Phoenix?  I plan to spend a few days in Mesa (KIWA) and a few in Buckeye (KBXK) over Christmas.  Maybe we can get together and compare notes?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n7ifr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2015 at 10:28am
David,
Appreciate your offer.  Over X'mas, we are up in Pagosa Springs, Co with plane in annual in Az.
My installer (and I) believe I have a defective unit - he has racked his brain on the install ports, etc.  Theoretically, Avidyne is sending a replacement unit today or tomorrow.
BTW, where's your home base?

Tom Wolf

p.s.  Also noticed (unrelated) in flight yesterday, Aspen MFD not receiving any inputs from either 540... (IOW, no MFD HSI available to connect with sources: vLOC, GPS) lower center button inactive, but no flags.  I figure something in the Aspen Maintenance Page needs flipping...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2015 at 2:14pm
I'm in Dallas. Live in Rockwall, hangared at 1F7 (Airpark East, near Terrell).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n7ifr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2015 at 2:09pm
Curious:
Since upgrading to MLB S.B. v4.0.9, can anybody actually confirm properly working Wx reception?

Just did "hangar" flying with installer on phone, and confirmed my MLB Traffic is working, but no Wx from MLB-box at all (unavailable).
They will replace my MLB box (assumed bad hardware), but maybe its a software glitch in update v4.0.9.

Tom Wolf
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSimpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2015 at 2:12pm
Are you getting a GPS signal where you are testing the Wx and Traffic?
Simpson Bennett
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2015 at 2:17pm
I thought that unless the ADS-B ground station was located on your airport, you generally need 3000ft AGL to receive the ADS-B products.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2015 at 6:31pm

I have version 4.0.8 but the only thing that changed for 4.0.9 was the traffic altitude bug.  Weather data was not changed in 4.0.9.

I happened to stop by NavWorx this afternoon, and asked them about return units.  They told me that literally 90% of the returned units had no internal fault.  (There have been ten, one had a problem.)   The problems in the 90% were due to mis-configuration in the Maintenance Console software by the installing facility.  The units arrived at NavWorx with an invalid configuration saved in memory.

Right now it seems the biggest bang-for-the-buck (from the perspective of improving the performance of the fleet) is in more/better training for the service facilities.

Naturally, the statistical data does not tell us what may be wrong in any one case, and I'm glad you are getting a unit to swap out.  I am curious to see how it goes.

David


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2015 at 6:33pm

Originally posted by Gring Gring wrote:

I thought that unless the ADS-B ground station was located on your airport, you generally need 3000ft AGL to receive the ADS-B products.

It's a function of altitude and distance.  Most pilots near a city will have coverage well before 3000 feet.  I am 30 miles from the nearest station and I have signal just above pattern altitude.

But anybody should certainly have good signal upon reaching 3000'.

David Bunin

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n7ifr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2015 at 9:34pm
Yes, both of my 540's pick up GPS localization outside my hangar.  

This AM, confirmed I was receiving (on the ground) MLB100 Traffic, but no Wx signal seen on either 540 "DataLink" page.

Tom Wolf


Edited by n7ifr - 11 Dec 2015 at 9:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2015 at 5:27pm

Tom, I did the 10.1.1.0 upgrade on my IFD today, and I confirmed that I get "ADS-B Wx" as the subscription type, even inside the hangar.  (Each individual data type says "Not Recvd" naturally, but the subscription type is there.)

If your replacement MLB doesn't solve the problem, then it has to be a configuration issue in your MLB software.  The good news is that it can be reconfigured without removal, if that's the problem.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n7ifr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2015 at 7:19pm
David,
Thanks for your continued input.  Are you using MLB v4.0.9?
  
Also, glad to hear of your success with v10.1.1 upgrade.  Do you also have the AXP240 Audio Panel and is the Stby Monitor function "fixed" - I hope?

I downloaded the 2 files for v10.1.1 and plan to do the update in the hangar with another 540 guy on my field, maybe tomorrow borrowing a power supply. How did you handle the "sign-off" - A&P needed?

Tuesday I fly out to MLB100 installer for new unit.  If it's a software configuration issue, they can use the UAT software to ? rectify.

Tom Wolf
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2015 at 11:39am

My pleasure, Tom.  I want to see this thing work for you.

I haven't loaded the 4.0.9 software yet.  4.0.8 was working fine for me (pressure altitudes are rarely below sea level around here) so I wasn't in any hurry to load the .9 software.  I'll get to it eventually.

I don't have the AXP240 audio panel.  As far as I can tell, I never experienced the problem with the standby volume.  I expect I might need to adjust my volumes (in my audio panel or in the IFD) now that I have the new software loaded.

The NavWorx ADS600-B and the Avidyne MLB100 both make use of a "Maintenance Console" software that runs on a PC (usually a laptop, but I suppose a desk top with a long cable would do it too).  The MC software looks about the same (the graphic user interface is the same) between the two.  My guess is that a shop that has experience with the NavWorx products tries to use that version of the console, and in the process wipes out the Avidyne software resident in the MLB100 from the factory.  (Please note that this is all my own theory, I don't have any proof or evidence.)  So it is very important to "read the fine print" and make sure you're using the MLB console and not the ADS console.  There is a relatively easy indication to see on the screen, but it is subtle if you're not looking for it.

Once an MLB100 unit is corrupted by the ADS600 Maintenance Console software, I do not know if it has to go back to the factory, or if an MLB console is able to restore it to functionality.  Haven't tried that experiment.  Your best bet is to receive an MLB100 unit and only connect the MLB console to it.  (And while you're at it, make sure the console is version 4.0.9.)

I am okay (not great) at using the Maintenance Console software.  My unit was configured for me by the factory, so I never had to do that for myself.  I have done several software updates, and I have observed the configuration on the screen, but I don't know it well enough to talk you through it without seeing it in front of me.

David


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2015 at 2:24pm
Tom,

I started a new thread based on a recent flight.  I don't think this is the same problem you are experiencing, but maybe it is related.  Here is a link...

http://forums.avidyne.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=898&title=datalink-data-not-rcvd

Separately, I recently saw an IFD on a test bench that should have been connected to an MLB100, but wasn't.  It was generating all of the failures that would be associated with the loss of the MLB, so I took a picture of that "failure" in case it might help you.




The first and last alerts are related to the traffic data.  The two in the middle are related to the weather data.

David Bunin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2015 at 2:32pm
One interesting thing in the image above are the time stamps.  I can't say for sure, but I strongly suspect that the MLB was removed from the equation (disconnected) in a single moment.  But each message was presented at a different time, based on the duration of each. The "429 Data Not Rcvd" predates the "Traffic Sensor Fault" by three minutes.  (I guess the loss of 429 data is more 'obvious' to the IFD than the lack of a traffic device.)  Conversely, the loss of the MLB (Datalink Receiver Fault) predates the loss of weather data by 25 minutes.  Possibly this was the time when the last piece of weather data toggled from valid to invalid (when the METARs/TAFs expired).

Just curious stuff.

David

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SibMack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2015 at 1:50am
I am a RF engineer and looking for transceivers for some of my applications.
Can you please share the details of your transceivers and its application areas?
Also what are the other hardware devices you are using with it?
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