GPS failure |
Post Reply | Page <123> |
Author | |
comancheguytoo
Newbie Joined: 17 Apr 2015 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 29 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Sounds like a good find. Also for guys new who have just received 540 but not installed, should we hold until it's decided if we will need to send in too?
|
|
comancheguytoo
Newbie Joined: 17 Apr 2015 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 29 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Tech support today suggested it might be good to wait a few more days if you are in the install phase like me, since 10.1 is near release.
Steve, can you confirm? |
|
AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
We can't tell. We've been done for a while and there is a lot of back and forth but we can't get a good read on likely sign off date. Technically we're only something like day 15 of the 90 day window the FAA has given themselves.
|
|
Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
|
Bad1996
Senior Member Joined: 11 Feb 2015 Location: Dalton, Ga. Status: Offline Points: 103 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I don't know why anyone would wait to install because of a software OR a hardware update. Maybe if you couldn't be AOG any at all ? Certainly software wouldn't be an issue. My 540 goes back tomorrow and I imagine it will fly just fine without it for a week or so :-)
|
|
Flysrv10
Newbie Joined: 16 Apr 2015 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 11 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I am letting you that I have a similar issue with GPS not acquiring. Sometimes on the ground and once in the air inbound to sun/fun. My unit is only two weeks old. TJ has my logs.
|
|
AviSimpson
Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2015 Location: Lincoln, MA Status: Offline Points: 765 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I confirmed with TJ today that he is looking into it and gave him the new logs that you sent me.
|
|
Simpson Bennett
Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
|
ksdoc
Groupie Joined: 20 Nov 2014 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 46 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Sorry to report that my fourth unit has failed again. For two hours, it functioned flawlessly. Then on a trip yesterday, completely failed to capture any GPS signal. I did the usual restart, no change. I took it up in the pattern, no capture. So I aborted my trip, landed and parked. I restarted the avionics and it finally captured.
In discussion with Avidyne afterwards, they believe they have the fix in 10.1. But that is what I have been told with the previous updates. I may be a fool (fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me), but I am willing to wait it out. I do like the unit, much better than what I have seen in the G750. I just can't believe how frustrating this has been for me. I know it has worked in many installs, why my plane? We have tried multiple fixes without success. So the plan now is to go back to the 530 and wait for the update.
|
|
kansasdoc
|
|
tony
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 466 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
doc, are they sure that when the unit is slide into your tray, its fully engaging all the connectors? It sure sounds like an installation issue.
|
|
ksdoc
Groupie Joined: 20 Nov 2014 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 46 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I have considered this and the installer has looked at it. Anything in particular I should consider? I'm open to suggestions.
I went out again yesterday. I had to recycle (turn avionics master on/off) four times before the unit actively engaged any GPS signals. And then it held them for the 45 min flight. What sort of installation error would be so sporadic? It functioned perfectly the first two hours after I got the new unit. I am replacing the 540 with the old 530, at least until the update. If it works like it did before, with no loss of signal, I would question either the 540 box, or some funky incompatibility with the tray or antenna, I guess. And then I would say for my plane, unfortunately, the 540 was not "plug-and-play" as I had expected. |
|
kansasdoc
|
|
brou0040
Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2012 Location: KIYK Status: Offline Points: 720 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
ksdoc, I hesitate to post what we found in mine just yet because I'm not sure that I'm "done" and that we actually found the issue. I haven't had a chance to fly it much yet to prove out the fix, but here's what we found. I was on my 3rd unit that was malfunctioning so I didn't want to swap without finding something that was actually wrong. The logs showed that the current unit had GPS issues prior to leaving the factory (my understanding is that they now look for that issue in the logs before delivery - I'm not sure if it was something new they found). My unit was showing that it had antenna voltage spikes. I wanted to come back to the dimmer circuit because all 3 units had issues with the dimmer although the installer and Avidyne had ruled that out as a separate issue. Eventually Avidyne believed that the dimmer voltage and ground pins were reversed. The installer found all the wiring to be correct, but that the ground pin for the dimmer was a manufactured defect. Apparently it was just a little shorter than the rest causing intermittent connectivity. I can see this when flying, but it's a bit curious when I was also having problems on the ground. Regardless, the installer replaced that pin and the dimmer is now working properly (although I'm not sure I understand why the AviCurve doesn't go up to 100% brightness) so that is something that improved over the past 3 units. I haven't had any problems with it on my flight back from the shop, but it's worked for longer periods before failing with the prior units so I need some flying hours to gain some confidence. I also need to put some hours on it so I can send the logs to Avidyne and verify the antenna voltage spikes are gone and that they must have been due to the intermittent ground. Maybe the 530 is less sensitive to the connection in the tray than the 540. I'd suggest that the shop should redo the connectors on your tray. This should all be covered under warranty so it would be a matter of your time and convenience. |
|
ksdoc
Groupie Joined: 20 Nov 2014 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 46 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Thanks for the info. I discussed this with my installer.
I plan to swap out the unit today, and when 10.1 is ready, he will take a fresh look at everything during the re-install.
|
|
kansasdoc
|
|
tony
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 466 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Mind you that my install was new, but the shop saw that there was a rivet head in the tray (the way it was manufactured) that prevented the 540 from fully engaging the connectors in the back. Fixed that and I haven't had any issues so far.
|
|
94S
Senior Member Joined: 06 Mar 2014 Location: Bismarck, ND Status: Offline Points: 162 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Tony, I'm assuming that when you say your install was new, that it was with an Avidyne tray. Did your shop take any photos of the rivet, and has this info been forwarded to Avidyne. If there is a photo, could you make it available so others can show it to their shops? Mine is in the shop right now being installed. I am going to mention this to them, but a picture would be worth a thousand words. Thanks for posting! David |
|
tony
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 466 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Yes it was an Avidyne tray and yes they know. The tray was sent back to Avidyne for replacement.
|
|
94S
Senior Member Joined: 06 Mar 2014 Location: Bismarck, ND Status: Offline Points: 162 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Ok, Thanks.
|
|
jhbehrens
Senior Member Joined: 15 Dec 2012 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 122 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Any updates on this AviJake? |
|
AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
We have determined it to be a solid fix and we did roll it into the 10.1 field release that we're waiting on cert for.
This *should* resolve every known case of GPS non-acquisition on the ground. According to the data logs that we've gotten, everyone who is squawking a failure of GPS to lock on while on the ground is affected by this issue and should be resolved with this impending release. |
|
Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
|
oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Well, that is very good news.
* Orest |
|
Gring
Senior Member Joined: 30 Dec 2011 Location: Kingston, NY Status: Online Points: 722 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
So, was it a hardware fix as described a few posts above, or a software tweak?
|
|
AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Software fix to address a hardware change.
|
|
Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
|
teeth6
Senior Member Joined: 10 Mar 2014 Status: Offline Points: 741 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Do you expect it will also resolve similar GPS losses which occur in flight? Most of mine have been on the ground but I also get a few shortly after departure. |
|
ksdoc
Groupie Joined: 20 Nov 2014 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 46 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Until just recently, all of my failures have been while airborne. Some within 30 minutes, others after several hours of flight.
|
|
kansasdoc
|
|
comancheguy
Senior Member Joined: 24 Aug 2011 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 160 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Well, My karma just bit me. Taxiing out for a business trip, my 540 lost GPS signal and didn't reacquire when I was ready to launch. Power cycle and it came back.
I hope that the 10.1 fix is it, because this is a show stopper. Luckily it was VFR and I had ipads and such. When i departed, I had the same old issue where the heading was correct, but the plane was pointing the wrong way. This is NOT a track up vs Heading up vs north up issue. Very disorienting to look over at the box at 200' and see RED all over from the FLTA stuff, and the airplane pointing back at the runway vs at my heading. I have been very supportive, but... My 530W is sold, and I am starting to get a bit nervous. I am out of town and need to get home on Friday... My airplane goes in the shop for the second 540 install on Monday, BTW. Hopefully, the FAA will get off the dime and approve 10.1 SOON, and it fixes these glitches. Ken |
|
ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I cancelled this weekend when both 540s didn't acquire GPS lock (my cell phone had lock). I too hope that 10.1 fixes this. |
|
David Gates
|
|
SB Jim
Senior Member Joined: 30 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 204 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Sounds good to me. That must've taken some sleuthing. |
|
GMSutton
Groupie Joined: 24 Apr 2012 Location: KMRY Status: Offline Points: 65 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Next in line: My IFD540 recently started exhibiting this behavior as well. On a recent flight of less than an hour, my unit lost and re-acquired GPS signal about a dozen times. Very irritating to say the least!
Luckily, I kept my GNS430W in my panel to provide an approved WAAS signal to my GTX330ES transponder. So I have a legal backup for IFR flight. However, I can't couple my autopilot to the 430W. Steve, what would you suggest we do while we wait for the software release 10.1? The problem with my unit losing GPS lock seems to be getting worse... Mike
< ="cosymantecnisbfw" co="cs" id="SILOBFWID" style="width: 0px; height: 0px; display: block;"> |
|
AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
[/QUOTE] Do you expect it will also resolve similar GPS losses which occur in flight? Most of mine have been on the ground but I also get a few shortly after departure. [/QUOTE] It's very possible but we'd have to look at the logs to know for sure. I know we have some of your logs from past flights so we can either paw through those to look again or you can send a new, more recent set with a date tag of an example event and we can tell. Our Tech Support guys have come up to speed on how to read the logs and know the signatures to look for. |
|
Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
|
AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Not karma, just a software issue that we induced. |
|
Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
|
AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Should be. Definitely is for the I/O board related GPS issues (which are all the ones that happen during start up that we know about) |
|
Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
|
AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I've been away from this for too long. Are the Avidyne tech support guys on this one? |
|
Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
|
AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Yours sounds like it is in-flight, well after takeoff and initialization. I know our GPS team is investigating each of the reports - do you know if they have your logs? |
|
Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
|
AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
David, We were waiting on your logs to confirm. Did you have a chance to grab and send them yet? |
|
Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
|
GMSutton
Groupie Joined: 24 Apr 2012 Location: KMRY Status: Offline Points: 65 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I haven't sent in my logs yet. Should I do that and if so, to whom should I send them? Thanks!
< ="cosymantecnisbfw" co="cs" id="SILOBFWID" style="width: 0px; height: 0px; display: block;"> |
|
MysticCobra
Senior Member Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Status: Offline Points: 649 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Same here. Of the dozen or so flights I've taken since my install, three or so involved at least one loss of GPS position while in flight. Last Friday, I had the first experience of no GPS position on the ground at startup, but it had acquired by the time I taxiied for fuel and completed my runup, so it wasn't an issue. Steve, I haven't contacted anyone at Avidyne about this because I thought all the GPS loss issues were known and being addressed, but it sounds like it'd be a good idea to go ahead and send in my logs. Could you remind me who to send them to?
Edited by MysticCobra - 06 May 2015 at 7:12am |
|
oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
When you have the GPS outage in the air, how long does it last? Just curious.
* Orest |
|
sikhpilotmd
Groupie Joined: 08 Oct 2014 Location: KISP Status: Offline Points: 69 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I had a similar issue for a few seconds in air
|
|
ksdoc
Groupie Joined: 20 Nov 2014 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 46 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
[QUOTE=oskrypuch]When you have the GPS outage in the air, how long does it last? Just curious.
* Orest Inflight, usually less than a minute. Once flying a SID out of Vegas, though in VFR. On the ground recently, I have had to recycle the box 4 times before acquiring a signal. |
|
kansasdoc
|
|
oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Back when my box was faulting on the ground, I would occasionally see a short in-air loss too. I would notice it because I would get an IFD540 CAS alert for the stormscope (or was it traffic), because it uses heading.
Happily, my exchanged unit has been solid. * Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 06 May 2015 at 12:28pm |
|
MysticCobra
Senior Member Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Status: Offline Points: 649 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
It varies wildly. On the flight where it was the worst (a 3+ hr leg), the outages could last upwards of several minutes, but sometimes it was only a few seconds. I might get three outages in 5 min, then I might fly for an hour before another outage. I think that was the flight that I tried power-cycling the 540 in air to clear the issue, which did seem to help, but didn't completely fix it...if I recall correctly, I did get at least one or two more outages after that also. Most of my flights have not had an issue. My typical legs are between 45 min and 2 hrs.
|
|
comancheguy
Senior Member Joined: 24 Aug 2011 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 160 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I sent my logs in. I got an email from sergio about it. I will reply to him, as well. I see no difference at ALL between setting track up or heading up. Nothing changes when I select either one. There is no option for North up that I can find. This may be operator error, but I can't figure it out.
I go in Monday morning and spend an alarming amount of cash to have the second one installed. So, I'll have your dealer work with you and maybe we can make some progress. Ken
|
|
oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
There are two different settings, one is in the user settings (heading up versus track up), which you discovered. When flying, with any cross wind, you will see the plane crabbed. With heading up your plane nose will be straight up, with track up, the nose will be one way or the other and the dotted track line will be straight up. When you are on the ground, not moving, there is of course no difference between the two. The other is switched through track (or heading) up plane centered, track (or heading) up with a 240* view, and north up. This is done by clicking the right knob in, when on the map view. * Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 09 May 2015 at 4:56pm |
|
comancheguy
Senior Member Joined: 24 Aug 2011 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 160 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
So, Simpson emailed me about the right knob push changing between heading/track/north up.
I verified on my flights over the weekend and to the avionics shop on Monday, that pushing the right knob DOES in fact switch between the views. (Duh! Operator error). Not sure how I missed that. I suspect, that the setup page setting is the default view (heading up or track up)? I have no more info to report about the issue (where the little airplane is NOT pointing where the ship is pointing in relation to the map.) But, now that I know how to switch between track / heading / north, maybe I can learn something more. My comanche is in the shop having the old Narco Mk12D removed for the second IFD-540. Just found out that my Shadin doesn't support output to a GPS box (no big deal). Hopefully, 10.1 will be approved while it is still there, so that I can leave with the new software, to go with my spiffy new hardware. I feel much better about the situation with these teething pains. My avionics shop (who has a stellar reputation) says, "Avidyne will 100% get past this and get these little issue resolved". This is not unheard of for new products. He pointed out that those who got a big discount to be an early adopter, may expect to suffer a bit in the begininng. I am hopeful that 10.1 will squash this bug. Another case where the FAA super-oversight is a hinderance to safety. Ken |
|
AviSimpson
Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2015 Location: Lincoln, MA Status: Offline Points: 765 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Glad I could help Ken!
|
|
Simpson Bennett
Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
|
oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
You still don't have that quite right. As I note above, if you choose in the user settings HEADING UP, then when you click the bottom right knob in a map view you will select between: heading up with plane centered; heading up in 240* view; north up with plane centered. If you choose in the user settings TRACK UP, then when you click the bottom right knob in a map view you will select between: track up with plane centered; track up in 240* view; north up with plane centered. * Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 12 May 2015 at 11:20pm |
|
comancheguy
Senior Member Joined: 24 Aug 2011 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 160 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
Orest -
Thanks for the clarification. I will have to study the manual again, and maybe play with the sim before I get the plane back. With two of these boxes, I will be overwhelmed with info for a bit. I'll need a nice long cross country to play with them in cruise. Ken
|
|
GMSutton
Groupie Joined: 24 Apr 2012 Location: KMRY Status: Offline Points: 65 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Eventually my IFD540 lost all ability to maintain a lock on the GPS satellites. I had to resort to using my backup IFR GPS, a Garmin 430W.
Fortunately, my avionics shop was able to swap my unit for a loaner (their demo box) and send mine back to the factory for warranty service. Hopefully I'll get it back soon and won't have this problem again. The loaner IFD540 seems to be working just fine. Mike
< ="cosymantecnisbfw" co="cs" id="SILOBFWID" style="width: 0px; height: 0px; display: block;"> |
|
chflyer
Senior Member Joined: 24 Jan 2013 Location: LSZK Status: Offline Points: 1022 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Simpson/Steve,
I have an early production IFD540 (s/n M144433036). I've had GPS lock-in issues at startup which I haven't reported but I believe my serial number is a candidate for the I/O board fix. I also now have a frequent but intermittent unreadable com transmission problem that will require ship back to Avidyne for repair, according to my avionics shop. Who would be the best contact to discuss my options? I'm in Europe so returning the unit would put me out of business for quite a while unless I could get a swap. Edited by chflyer - 18 May 2015 at 8:51am |
|
Vince
|
|
brou0040
Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2012 Location: KIYK Status: Offline Points: 720 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Add me to the list of people who have had GPS fail to acquire at start-up. I restarted the unit in flight and it was able to acquire.
Is it beneficial to send the logs in to verify the failure?
|
|
AviSimpson
Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2015 Location: Lincoln, MA Status: Offline Points: 765 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Yes. You can send the logs to me at sbennett(at)avidyne.com.
|
|
Simpson Bennett
Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
|
chflyer
Senior Member Joined: 24 Jan 2013 Location: LSZK Status: Offline Points: 1022 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
The colour of the the Nav Source State (GPS) isn't a sure indicator of lack of GPS lock (will be yellow if no active leg programmed, often the case on the ground after startup). So the GPS lock needs to be confirmed by reviewing the Aux/Sys/Select GPS page (or indirectly via a quick "direct to" somewhere to force the state to green).
What is/are the status(es) on the GPS page that indicate GPS lock? SBAS Nav would seem to qualify. Are there others? The PG doesn't indicate the various possible values of this field. Other than this, it would seem that GPS lock would need to be deduced from sum of the various quality indicators on the page (Nav mode, HAL, VAL, Position, HPL/VPL, GPS alt, satellite signals, etc). Edited by chflyer - 26 May 2015 at 4:26pm |
|
Vince
|
|
Post Reply | Page <123> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |