GPS failure |
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AviBryan
Newbie Joined: 15 Feb 2018 Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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Posted: 16 Oct 2019 at 12:33pm |
Hi VDH, I'm sorry you're seeing this issue. Have you reached out to Pilotsupport@avidyne.com or called our support line? I'm just trying to understand what you mean about not getting a reply in so long as this is the only post I see from you on this thread. My apologies if I'm overlooking the information but would you please email me at bkahl@avidyne.com with your contact information and Copy pilotsupport@avidyne.com. We will get you taken care of!
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VDH
Newbie Joined: 08 Aug 2015 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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I have a serious problem with my IFD540 where it consistently takes a very long time to acquire satellites. It takes between 10 and 30 minutes for the unit to acquire satellites and the unit reports a "GPS Fault. No Position". During this time the transponder does not transmit an ADSB-out signal. It also occasionally drops out for 30-60 secs while in cruise. I recently had the latest software update but it made no difference to this issue. I had my avionics shop download the logs a week ago and submit them to Avidyne. The download took an excessively long time - like a couple of hours. Despite having had them for more than a week, my avionics shop has had no response despite following up multiple times. Avidyne - what is going on??? The aircraft is essentially unairworthy (at least for IFR) with this fault. It is unreasonable not to even have a response after this length of time.
Edited by AviSteve - 19 Sep 2023 at 1:19pm |
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Mooney 20J
Mount Beauty, Australia |
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ksdoc
Groupie Joined: 20 Nov 2014 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 46 |
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Nope, didn't fix it for mine.
After leaving the shop, 5 minutes into flight home the GPS signal failed again! I just returned from vacation and during both legs, the signal dropped once. It lasted a few seconds and then reacquired. I had to reset the Aspen back to GPSS and SV, otherwise no significant issues. It has not had the same problem during initial startup as it did before, so there is a plus. So, having installed the unit back in October, I have not had one flight where the unit did not fail at some point during the flight! And I'm on my third replacement unit. Avidyne thinks they finally understand the problem and plan to send me a new 540 next week, so we'll see. I guess I'm one of the 'lucky ones'! :)
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kansasdoc
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teeth6
Senior Member Joined: 10 Mar 2014 Status: Offline Points: 741 |
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Mine has been fine also. No more GPS issues at all.
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brou0040
Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2012 Location: KIYK Status: Offline Points: 720 |
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I haven't had any recent GPS issues. |
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DavidBunin
Senior Member Joined: 20 May 2015 Location: Rockwall, TX Status: Offline Points: 742 |
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I have almost ten hours flying behind version 10.1 now, and not a single GPS problem. That said, I only flew a few hours with version 10.0.3.0 and I never noticed a GPS problem then either.
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scott
Groupie Joined: 21 Aug 2013 Location: Danville, CA Status: Offline Points: 76 |
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Just curious, for the people that were having GPS problems before 10.1 - have those problems been resolved? Did 10.1 fix the GPS lock problem?
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AviSimpson
Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2015 Location: Lincoln, MA Status: Offline Points: 765 |
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That email address is the best one to send logs to.
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Simpson Bennett
Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
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cajungene
Newbie Joined: 16 Apr 2015 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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I had multiple failures on 5/26/15. I've downloaded th logs and sent them to techsupport@avidyne.com. Is that sufficient or should I send them to a particular tech?
Gene |
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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Correct.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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chflyer
Senior Member Joined: 24 Jan 2013 Location: LSZK Status: Offline Points: 1022 |
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Thanks Steve. So a yellow GPS indication without active flight plan leg is fine as long as there is no CAS message.
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Vince
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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Page 4-46 of the Pilot Guide defines the possible GPS states.
If on the ground and the system has not acquired a GPS lock within 3 minutes, you will receive a yellow "GPS Fault - No Position" CAS message. See page 6-5 of the Pilot Guide. If in the air and GPS is lost, you will receive a yellow "GPS Fault - Dead Reckoning" CAS message. See page 6-5 of the Pilot Guide. Or, as you note, you can look at the AUX page, SYS-GPS Status for detailed satellite lock information.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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chflyer
Senior Member Joined: 24 Jan 2013 Location: LSZK Status: Offline Points: 1022 |
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The colour of the the Nav Source State (GPS) isn't a sure indicator of lack of GPS lock (will be yellow if no active leg programmed, often the case on the ground after startup). So the GPS lock needs to be confirmed by reviewing the Aux/Sys/Select GPS page (or indirectly via a quick "direct to" somewhere to force the state to green).
What is/are the status(es) on the GPS page that indicate GPS lock? SBAS Nav would seem to qualify. Are there others? The PG doesn't indicate the various possible values of this field. Other than this, it would seem that GPS lock would need to be deduced from sum of the various quality indicators on the page (Nav mode, HAL, VAL, Position, HPL/VPL, GPS alt, satellite signals, etc). Edited by chflyer - 26 May 2015 at 4:26pm |
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Vince
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AviSimpson
Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2015 Location: Lincoln, MA Status: Offline Points: 765 |
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Yes. You can send the logs to me at sbennett(at)avidyne.com.
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Simpson Bennett
Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
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brou0040
Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2012 Location: KIYK Status: Offline Points: 720 |
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Add me to the list of people who have had GPS fail to acquire at start-up. I restarted the unit in flight and it was able to acquire.
Is it beneficial to send the logs in to verify the failure?
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chflyer
Senior Member Joined: 24 Jan 2013 Location: LSZK Status: Offline Points: 1022 |
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Simpson/Steve,
I have an early production IFD540 (s/n M144433036). I've had GPS lock-in issues at startup which I haven't reported but I believe my serial number is a candidate for the I/O board fix. I also now have a frequent but intermittent unreadable com transmission problem that will require ship back to Avidyne for repair, according to my avionics shop. Who would be the best contact to discuss my options? I'm in Europe so returning the unit would put me out of business for quite a while unless I could get a swap. Edited by chflyer - 18 May 2015 at 8:51am |
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Vince
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GMSutton
Groupie Joined: 24 Apr 2012 Location: KMRY Status: Offline Points: 65 |
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Eventually my IFD540 lost all ability to maintain a lock on the GPS satellites. I had to resort to using my backup IFR GPS, a Garmin 430W.
Fortunately, my avionics shop was able to swap my unit for a loaner (their demo box) and send mine back to the factory for warranty service. Hopefully I'll get it back soon and won't have this problem again. The loaner IFD540 seems to be working just fine. Mike
< ="cosymantecnisbfw" co="cs" id="SILOBFWID" style="width: 0px; height: 0px; display: block;"> |
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comancheguy
Senior Member Joined: 24 Aug 2011 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 160 |
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Orest -
Thanks for the clarification. I will have to study the manual again, and maybe play with the sim before I get the plane back. With two of these boxes, I will be overwhelmed with info for a bit. I'll need a nice long cross country to play with them in cruise. Ken
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
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You still don't have that quite right. As I note above, if you choose in the user settings HEADING UP, then when you click the bottom right knob in a map view you will select between: heading up with plane centered; heading up in 240* view; north up with plane centered. If you choose in the user settings TRACK UP, then when you click the bottom right knob in a map view you will select between: track up with plane centered; track up in 240* view; north up with plane centered. * Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 12 May 2015 at 11:20pm |
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AviSimpson
Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2015 Location: Lincoln, MA Status: Offline Points: 765 |
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Glad I could help Ken!
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Simpson Bennett
Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
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comancheguy
Senior Member Joined: 24 Aug 2011 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 160 |
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So, Simpson emailed me about the right knob push changing between heading/track/north up.
I verified on my flights over the weekend and to the avionics shop on Monday, that pushing the right knob DOES in fact switch between the views. (Duh! Operator error). Not sure how I missed that. I suspect, that the setup page setting is the default view (heading up or track up)? I have no more info to report about the issue (where the little airplane is NOT pointing where the ship is pointing in relation to the map.) But, now that I know how to switch between track / heading / north, maybe I can learn something more. My comanche is in the shop having the old Narco Mk12D removed for the second IFD-540. Just found out that my Shadin doesn't support output to a GPS box (no big deal). Hopefully, 10.1 will be approved while it is still there, so that I can leave with the new software, to go with my spiffy new hardware. I feel much better about the situation with these teething pains. My avionics shop (who has a stellar reputation) says, "Avidyne will 100% get past this and get these little issue resolved". This is not unheard of for new products. He pointed out that those who got a big discount to be an early adopter, may expect to suffer a bit in the begininng. I am hopeful that 10.1 will squash this bug. Another case where the FAA super-oversight is a hinderance to safety. Ken |
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
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There are two different settings, one is in the user settings (heading up versus track up), which you discovered. When flying, with any cross wind, you will see the plane crabbed. With heading up your plane nose will be straight up, with track up, the nose will be one way or the other and the dotted track line will be straight up. When you are on the ground, not moving, there is of course no difference between the two. The other is switched through track (or heading) up plane centered, track (or heading) up with a 240* view, and north up. This is done by clicking the right knob in, when on the map view. * Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 09 May 2015 at 4:56pm |
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comancheguy
Senior Member Joined: 24 Aug 2011 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 160 |
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I sent my logs in. I got an email from sergio about it. I will reply to him, as well. I see no difference at ALL between setting track up or heading up. Nothing changes when I select either one. There is no option for North up that I can find. This may be operator error, but I can't figure it out.
I go in Monday morning and spend an alarming amount of cash to have the second one installed. So, I'll have your dealer work with you and maybe we can make some progress. Ken
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MysticCobra
Senior Member Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Status: Offline Points: 648 |
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It varies wildly. On the flight where it was the worst (a 3+ hr leg), the outages could last upwards of several minutes, but sometimes it was only a few seconds. I might get three outages in 5 min, then I might fly for an hour before another outage. I think that was the flight that I tried power-cycling the 540 in air to clear the issue, which did seem to help, but didn't completely fix it...if I recall correctly, I did get at least one or two more outages after that also. Most of my flights have not had an issue. My typical legs are between 45 min and 2 hrs.
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
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Back when my box was faulting on the ground, I would occasionally see a short in-air loss too. I would notice it because I would get an IFD540 CAS alert for the stormscope (or was it traffic), because it uses heading.
Happily, my exchanged unit has been solid. * Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 06 May 2015 at 12:28pm |
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ksdoc
Groupie Joined: 20 Nov 2014 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 46 |
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[QUOTE=oskrypuch]When you have the GPS outage in the air, how long does it last? Just curious.
* Orest Inflight, usually less than a minute. Once flying a SID out of Vegas, though in VFR. On the ground recently, I have had to recycle the box 4 times before acquiring a signal. |
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kansasdoc
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sikhpilotmd
Groupie Joined: 08 Oct 2014 Location: KISP Status: Offline Points: 69 |
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I had a similar issue for a few seconds in air
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
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When you have the GPS outage in the air, how long does it last? Just curious.
* Orest |
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MysticCobra
Senior Member Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Status: Offline Points: 648 |
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Same here. Of the dozen or so flights I've taken since my install, three or so involved at least one loss of GPS position while in flight. Last Friday, I had the first experience of no GPS position on the ground at startup, but it had acquired by the time I taxiied for fuel and completed my runup, so it wasn't an issue. Steve, I haven't contacted anyone at Avidyne about this because I thought all the GPS loss issues were known and being addressed, but it sounds like it'd be a good idea to go ahead and send in my logs. Could you remind me who to send them to?
Edited by MysticCobra - 06 May 2015 at 7:12am |
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GMSutton
Groupie Joined: 24 Apr 2012 Location: KMRY Status: Offline Points: 65 |
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I haven't sent in my logs yet. Should I do that and if so, to whom should I send them? Thanks!
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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David, We were waiting on your logs to confirm. Did you have a chance to grab and send them yet? |
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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Yours sounds like it is in-flight, well after takeoff and initialization. I know our GPS team is investigating each of the reports - do you know if they have your logs? |
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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I've been away from this for too long. Are the Avidyne tech support guys on this one? |
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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Should be. Definitely is for the I/O board related GPS issues (which are all the ones that happen during start up that we know about) |
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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Not karma, just a software issue that we induced. |
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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[/QUOTE] Do you expect it will also resolve similar GPS losses which occur in flight? Most of mine have been on the ground but I also get a few shortly after departure. [/QUOTE] It's very possible but we'd have to look at the logs to know for sure. I know we have some of your logs from past flights so we can either paw through those to look again or you can send a new, more recent set with a date tag of an example event and we can tell. Our Tech Support guys have come up to speed on how to read the logs and know the signatures to look for. |
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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GMSutton
Groupie Joined: 24 Apr 2012 Location: KMRY Status: Offline Points: 65 |
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Next in line: My IFD540 recently started exhibiting this behavior as well. On a recent flight of less than an hour, my unit lost and re-acquired GPS signal about a dozen times. Very irritating to say the least!
Luckily, I kept my GNS430W in my panel to provide an approved WAAS signal to my GTX330ES transponder. So I have a legal backup for IFR flight. However, I can't couple my autopilot to the 430W. Steve, what would you suggest we do while we wait for the software release 10.1? The problem with my unit losing GPS lock seems to be getting worse... Mike
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SB Jim
Senior Member Joined: 30 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 204 |
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Sounds good to me. That must've taken some sleuthing. |
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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I cancelled this weekend when both 540s didn't acquire GPS lock (my cell phone had lock). I too hope that 10.1 fixes this. |
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David Gates
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comancheguy
Senior Member Joined: 24 Aug 2011 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 160 |
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Well, My karma just bit me. Taxiing out for a business trip, my 540 lost GPS signal and didn't reacquire when I was ready to launch. Power cycle and it came back.
I hope that the 10.1 fix is it, because this is a show stopper. Luckily it was VFR and I had ipads and such. When i departed, I had the same old issue where the heading was correct, but the plane was pointing the wrong way. This is NOT a track up vs Heading up vs north up issue. Very disorienting to look over at the box at 200' and see RED all over from the FLTA stuff, and the airplane pointing back at the runway vs at my heading. I have been very supportive, but... My 530W is sold, and I am starting to get a bit nervous. I am out of town and need to get home on Friday... My airplane goes in the shop for the second 540 install on Monday, BTW. Hopefully, the FAA will get off the dime and approve 10.1 SOON, and it fixes these glitches. Ken |
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ksdoc
Groupie Joined: 20 Nov 2014 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 46 |
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Until just recently, all of my failures have been while airborne. Some within 30 minutes, others after several hours of flight.
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kansasdoc
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teeth6
Senior Member Joined: 10 Mar 2014 Status: Offline Points: 741 |
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Do you expect it will also resolve similar GPS losses which occur in flight? Most of mine have been on the ground but I also get a few shortly after departure. |
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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Software fix to address a hardware change.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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Gring
Senior Member Joined: 30 Dec 2011 Location: Kingston, NY Status: Offline Points: 720 |
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So, was it a hardware fix as described a few posts above, or a software tweak?
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
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Well, that is very good news.
* Orest |
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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We have determined it to be a solid fix and we did roll it into the 10.1 field release that we're waiting on cert for.
This *should* resolve every known case of GPS non-acquisition on the ground. According to the data logs that we've gotten, everyone who is squawking a failure of GPS to lock on while on the ground is affected by this issue and should be resolved with this impending release. |
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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jhbehrens
Senior Member Joined: 15 Dec 2012 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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Any updates on this AviJake? |
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94S
Senior Member Joined: 06 Mar 2014 Location: Bismarck, ND Status: Offline Points: 162 |
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Ok, Thanks.
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tony
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 466 |
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Yes it was an Avidyne tray and yes they know. The tray was sent back to Avidyne for replacement.
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94S
Senior Member Joined: 06 Mar 2014 Location: Bismarck, ND Status: Offline Points: 162 |
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Tony, I'm assuming that when you say your install was new, that it was with an Avidyne tray. Did your shop take any photos of the rivet, and has this info been forwarded to Avidyne. If there is a photo, could you make it available so others can show it to their shops? Mine is in the shop right now being installed. I am going to mention this to them, but a picture would be worth a thousand words. Thanks for posting! David |
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