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Kentucky Captain View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 Oct 2022 at 7:35pm
My daughter and I were doing some instrument approaches last week for currency and had something weird happen.

We departed from our home airport, KBRY and did the RNAV 23 approach at KEKX followed by the ILS 5 back to the same airport.

Upon the missed approach we cleared the approach and airport from the IFD540 and entered our home airport (KBRY) and the LPV 21 approach.  The Aspen PFD still displayed ILS and a DME as the source.  Reentering the approach and airport 2 times did not make any difference.

Thinking we might have an Aspen problem, I powered both Aspens down and back up.  Still no change in the info.  Wanting to see what would happen, we continued the approach past the IAF.  We got no LDI OR VDI at all.

We broke off the approach, circled back around, and while that was happening, I pulled the breaker on the IFD and reset it.  When it came back up, I entered the airport and approach. All of the data to the Aspen PFD was correct then.  The LDI and VDI worked as advertised.

I have been flying this configuration for almost 5 years and this is the first time I've seen that happen.  Could this be a 10.3 issue?  Has anyone else seen this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dmtidler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2022 at 9:29pm
I'm curious what the IFD540 was showing for active nav status after entering the LPV approach. Was it showing VLOC, GPS, or LPV? 

Is it possible that the IFD540 didn't revert back to GPS automatically and stayed in VLOC; possibly because the MAP was cleared from the IFD540 before crossing it? 

Did you try turning the CDI Nav Source knob to manually change the Nav Source before cycling the IFD540 power?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2022 at 10:33pm
In the not so recent past, there have been reports of the Aspen not updating in a timely fashion.  Reports varied from several seconds to several minutes.  I was able to reproduce it one time, but have never been able to do so since.  As a result debugging has been next to impossible.

Any chance you can reproduce it?
Steve Lindsley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kentucky Captain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2022 at 11:10am
Originally posted by dmtidler dmtidler wrote:

I'm curious what the IFD540 was showing for active nav status after entering the LPV approach. Was it showing VLOC, GPS, or LPV? 

Is it possible that the IFD540 didn't revert back to GPS automatically and stayed in VLOC; possibly because the MAP was cleared from the IFD540 before crossing it? 

Did you try turning the CDI Nav Source knob to manually change the Nav Source before cycling the IFD540 power?


Sorry, I didn't think to look at the nav status during the event.  I was focused on the Aspen and the lack of a LDI and VDI.

I did not turn the CDI knob either.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kentucky Captain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2022 at 11:14am
Originally posted by AviSteve AviSteve wrote:

In the not so recent past, there have been reports of the Aspen not updating in a timely fashion.  Reports varied from several seconds to several minutes.  I was able to reproduce it one time, but have never been able to do so since.  As a result debugging has been next to impossible.

Any chance you can reproduce it?


It was at least 10 minutes between the time we entered the new airport and approach til we had to reboot the IFD.

I will see if we can reproduce the error next time we fly.  We just brought my daughter's Cherokee 235 back from the avionics shop on Saturday and we have a host of issues to look at there too. A couple dealing with her IFD440.  I'll post them over on the 10.3 issue section.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeIBM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2022 at 10:56pm
Interesting - I'm glad I'm watching this forum, as I have seen my Aspens very slow to update.  When I add or change a flight plan - sometimes it's relatively quick, sometime's it's very slow (2-3 minutes or more).

What do you want from a reproduction flight?  What do you need to know - happy to assist and dump any logs (although I don't know much about getting log data from the Aspen's - both new Pro Max's).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2022 at 7:50am
I had forgotten about it until I saw this thread, but when we originally installed the Aspen in my prior plane (a stock EFD 1000 Pro) with 10.2, we had the problem where it could sometimes take 1-2 minutes for flight plan changes to be reflected on the Aspen. The problem seemed to stop when we upgraded the Aspen to a Pro Max 1000. Not sure if that's useful data or not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2022 at 9:13am
Originally posted by JoeIBM JoeIBM wrote:

Interesting - I'm glad I'm watching this forum, as I have seen my Aspens very slow to update.  When I add or change a flight plan - sometimes it's relatively quick, sometime's it's very slow (2-3 minutes or more).

What do you want from a reproduction flight?  What do you need to know - happy to assist and dump any logs (although I don't know much about getting log data from the Aspen's - both new Pro Max's).
If you have a scenario that you can reproduce at will, then I would love to know exactly what you entered into the flight plan and how the 232 and 429 ports on your IFD are configured.
Steve Lindsley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2022 at 9:14am
Originally posted by paulr paulr wrote:

I had forgotten about it until I saw this thread, but when we originally installed the Aspen in my prior plane (a stock EFD 1000 Pro) with 10.2, we had the problem where it could sometimes take 1-2 minutes for flight plan changes to be reflected on the Aspen. The problem seemed to stop when we upgraded the Aspen to a Pro Max 1000. Not sure if that's useful data or not.
That is helpful, thanks for the update.
Steve Lindsley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeIBM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2022 at 12:07am
Ok, I'll go out and try to both record and comment on a reproducible scenario or two.  I'll try to grab the 429 and 232 settings as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeIBM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2022 at 6:24am
Ok Steve, 

Finally got out there and ran a couple changes through to the flight plan in-use, and the IFD showed the flight plan change (just a simple direct-to) immediately, but the Aspen takes 11 seconds in one instance and 14 seconds in another instance.  I've had the Aspen take much longer at times, but this is a pretty standard amount of time.  This is with 10.2.6.3 or so - the last 10.2.6 build whichever that is.

11 second delay: https://vimeo.com/770685930

14 second delay: https://vimeo.com/770685983

Comms config screens:





Edited by JoeIBM - 08 Dec 2022 at 11:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brou0040 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2022 at 11:13pm
It looks like the left Aspen responds immediately, but the right one takes forever.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2022 at 9:22am
Originally posted by JoeIBM JoeIBM wrote:

Ok Steve, 

Finally got out there and ran a couple changes through to the flight plan in-use, and the IFD showed the flight plan change (just a simple direct-to) immediately, but the Aspen takes 11 seconds in one instance and 14 seconds in another instance.  I've had the Aspen take much longer at times, but this is a pretty standard amount of time.  This is with 10.2.6.3 or so - the last 10.2.6 build whichever that is.

11 second delay: https://vimeo.com/770685930

14 second delay: https://vimeo.com/770685983

Comms config screens:



Thanks for that.  It's helpful.
Steve Lindsley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kentucky Captain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 1:54pm
We've been doing some flying, when the weird weather we've been having permits, and have fixed some of our issues.  While all don't specifically pertain to the IFD, we thought some one here could shed some insight on our remaining issues after the panel upgrade on my daughter's PA28-235.

We found and fixed:
No audio on approaching and minimums - Volume in Aspen was at 6.  Range is 0 to 63.

No audio on altitude call outs from IFD - Output from the IFD was set to AUX on the PMA8000 audio panel.  Once selected, works fine.

ADS-B is from Garmin GTX330  ES with a GDL88 - Finally have traffic on Aspen PFD & MFD. Also in IFD100.  Still get Traffic Fail on Aspen at startup.  Changes to Traffic degraded on taxi, and the message finally disappears sometime between the start of takeoff roll and getting airborne.  I don't remember seeing that on my plane but I also have the L3 NGT9000+ with TCAS.  Might be the difference there.
---------------------------------------
Things with issues:

No traffic on any of three iPads.  Traffic button not even available.  Wifi must be working as we have geo-referencing on Foreflight and the IFD100 works fine and does show traffic.  Traffic does show correctly on all iPads in my plane.

Getting a lot of Datalink Data Overdue messages on the IFD44 and 100 app in flight.

Here is the weird one.  We take off, enter the first approach.  It loads correctly on the IFD.  On the Aspen Selected CDI Navigation Source Information Block, it will show GPS1.  Next line shows the fix navigating to.  In this case, it is the IAF. Next line is bearing and distance.  Last line is ETA.  After the first approach, we load the next approach.  The Selected CDI Navigation Source Information Block shows all of the correct info like the last approach except that the fix navigating to is missing.  In the last few approaches, it shows up right around arrival at that fix.  Yesterday it showed up about 10 miles from it.  Sorry for being so wordy but this is strange and hard to explain.

Switching airplanes, I have a question about mine.  My daughter and I have almost the same panel layout except I have the IFD540 instead of her IFD440 and I have a L3 NGT9000+ instead of her GTX330 ES/GDL88.  We both have dual Aspens and STEC555X autopilots.  I also have the PMA450 instead of her PMA8000B.  While her audio from the IFD seems to be routed through the AUX on the PMA8000B, I have no idea where mine is routed through.  Could it still be through the PMA450 through an unswitched connection?  How can I control the volume from the IFD audio outputs?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 3:48pm
A call to your installer should let you know how it is wired.

Go to the AUDIO tab to control all of the volumes on the IFD.

As an aside, I think it is VERY cool that you and your daughter are both flying, in your own planes, contemporaneously. Way cool!

* Orest


Edited by oskrypuch - 27 Nov 2022 at 4:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kentucky Captain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 10:01pm
Unfortunately, the first avionics upgrade was done by Gulf Coast Avionics in 2015.  That install incorporated the new powder coated panel, Single Aspen, IFD540, GNC255, JPI EDM900, STEC30, PMA450, and AXP340.  Andy Smith was the installer and he now works for Aspen.  His wife, Sarah, is in charge of the shop there.  Maybe she has records.  I'll see if I can get in touch with her.  The second upgrade was done by Forge Flightworks, formerly Carpenter Avionics.  That was where we sent the Aspen back for the Max upgrade, added the MFD, swapped the AXP340 and SkyTrax 100 for the L3 NGT9000+ /w TCAS, CEIS digital fuel senders, digital flap gauge, and a few other goodies.

My daughter said she has chatted with you over on the Piper forum, asking you about installing an oxygen system in her 235.  We have adjacent hangers with an opening between them.  We are always working on one or the other airplane.  Our panels are almost identical now, making it easier to transition between airplanes.  Unfortunately, my C172M is a lot slower than her PA28-235 so she ends up at 55% power a lot when we travel as a flight.  We went to OSH this year like that and had a blast.  Flew up the ORD skyline at 2500'.

Here is my current panel in the C172.  In addition to the panel work, I recently redid the interior and got new paint.  All exterior lights are AeroLEDS.  Only one more mod coming, an MT, three bladed, electric constant speed composite prop.  Lead time on it is currently 10 months.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kentucky Captain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 10:18pm
Here is Liz's panel.  I know this is not an Aspen forum but maybe someone here can shed some light on it.  During the test flight yesterday, as we finished the run-up and were getting ready to take the runway, we noticed that the PFD was showing 21 knots in indicated airpseed even though we were sitting still. We had not taxied that fast, I'm positive.  Pressing the Reversion button on the MFD was saw that the airspeed was 0 there (actually --).  We shut the PFD down and restarted it, and pulled the breaker to but when it came back up each time, it showed 21 knots.  We taxied back to the ramp and shut down.  The OAT was 59 degrees so it wasn't ice, but we turned on pitot heat anyway.  No change.  Cranked the airplane back up and taxied back out to try it again.  The indicated airspeed was 0 sitting at the end this time.  We turned the MFD to reversionary and compared the two airspeeds as we took off.  The PFD jumped to 21 right away and the MFD slowy came up.  by the time they were past 50 knots, they were only 2 knots different and remained that way for the rest of the flight.  They were working perfectly on all previous flights.  I've never seen that before, even on my airplane.  Any ideas?
Also, I'm sending you a PM too.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeIBM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2022 at 11:07pm
Originally posted by brou0040 brou0040 wrote:

It looks like the left Aspen responds immediately, but the right one takes forever.

Actually - they both take the same amount of time, you can see both of them switching 10-15 seconds after hitting the final "enter" button on the IFD...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kentucky Captain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2022 at 11:18pm
Originally posted by JoeIBM JoeIBM wrote:

Originally posted by brou0040 brou0040 wrote:

It looks like the left Aspen responds immediately, but the right one takes forever.

Actually - they both take the same amount of time, you can see both of them switching 10-15 seconds after hitting the final "enter" button on the IFD...


I'm not sure to what you are referring:

If it is the time it takes the Aspens to finish booting up, the PFD does take a fair amount longer to come up than the MFD.  I asked the installer about it and he said that it was proper and they all do that.

If talking about the PFD showing 21 knots while the MFD is at 0, I know that is not right.  It is something that just started happening and even after flying airspeed is obtained, the two Aspens are always 2 knots off, the PFD being the higher one.  My dual Aspens in my plane do not exhibit any of this behavior. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeIBM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2022 at 8:56am
Originally posted by Kentucky Captain Kentucky Captain wrote:

Originally posted by JoeIBM JoeIBM wrote:

Originally posted by brou0040 brou0040 wrote:

It looks like the left Aspen responds immediately, but the right one takes forever.

Actually - they both take the same amount of time, you can see both of them switching 10-15 seconds after hitting the final "enter" button on the IFD...


I'm not sure to what you are referring:

If it is the time it takes the Aspens to finish booting up, the PFD does take a fair amount longer to come up than the MFD.  I asked the installer about it and he said that it was proper and they all do that.

If talking about the PFD showing 21 knots while the MFD is at 0, I know that is not right.  It is something that just started happening and even after flying airspeed is obtained, the two Aspens are always 2 knots off, the PFD being the higher one.  My dual Aspens in my plane do not exhibit any of this behavior. 

Hi Cap - actually, I think we're talking about two different threads here.  I had posted videos showing how long it takes my MFD to "receive" the updated flight plan from the IFD, and I think brou0040 was saying he/she thought the PFD was 'receiving' the updated flight plan immediately but the MFD was delayed.  I'm just having a conversation about that particular weirdness, which I hope Avidyne or an installer can provide some insight into clearing up for me.

Hope you get your stuff worked out as well!
C310R at KJYO
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