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Why do I see "ADS-B Degraded" in my traffic displa

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Helf View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02 Apr 2019 at 1:30pm
I have two IFD 540s and the MLB-100 ADS-B in receiver.
The system works great for weather but not so much for traffic. I don't see traffic displayed on either IFD 540 and, when looking at the traffic ring I see a constant yellow message that says "ADS-B degraded" (or maybe it's "traffic degraded"?).
Again, I know the MLB-100 is feeding info to the IFD 540s because I see ADS-B in weather info.
What is going on with traffic and how can I fix it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2019 at 12:24am
What do you have installed for ADS-B Out?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forkauto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2019 at 8:49am
I initially had an issue similar and ended up being a setting that was incorrect and there was also a wiring change. If I remember correctly both traffic and weather use the same type of wiring now where they were different. Cant remember if both use Arinc429 or RS232 but initially one was for weather and one for traffic now they both use one type.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Helf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2019 at 10:49am
Originally posted by Catani Catani wrote:

What do you have installed for ADS-B Out?

Two AXP340s. Both are set for UAT=Yes and I have experimented with one set for 1090=Yes and one with 1090=No.  No matter which Txpdr is active, I get "ADS-B Degraded" on my traffic thumbnail and I don't see traffic displayed on my IFD.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2019 at 4:36pm
Originally posted by forkauto forkauto wrote:

I initially had an issue similar and ended up being a setting that was incorrect and there was also a wiring change. If I remember correctly both traffic and weather use the same type of wiring now where they were different. Cant remember if both use Arinc429 or RS232 but initially one was for weather and one for traffic now they both use one type.
 
I think the old version of the MLB 100 software had the traffic and weather were on two different busses (429 and 232).  The new software release moved everything to one of them but I don't remember which one.  That was a few years ago and my brain is a bit fuzzy on this. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ddgates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2019 at 5:08pm
It is RS232 for Skytrax WX + TRFC.  
David Gates
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ibraham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2019 at 6:10pm
You need to check this Service Bulletin

Document Number:
601-00000-004
Title:
SkyTrax100 (formerly known as MLB100) “ADS-B Degraded” Message Alerts displayed on the IFD4XX/5XX with 10.2.0 Software
Revision:
00
Date:
23 May 2017
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Helf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2019 at 6:14pm
Thanks.  How can I get that one?
I do not see it listed on the Avidyne website either a Service Bulletin or a Service Information Letter.
Where can I get the document?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forkauto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2019 at 2:37pm
Originally posted by Helf Helf wrote:

Thanks.  How can I get that one?
I do not see it listed on the Avidyne website either a Service Bulletin or a Service Information Letter.
Where can I get the document?


Send me an email and I can forward the copy I have

forkauto@verizon.net

Gary


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ibraham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2019 at 3:40pm
You should contact Avidyne technical support, as you will also need to update the MLB 100 to the latest firmware. They will only release the firmware update to avionics shops or A&P, unless you have an experimental.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Helf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 10:39pm
Help!

My avionics guy updated my MLB-100 software and we have followed the settings suggested here for the IFD-540.  Still, I don't see traffic, even though I now get "Normal" in the traffic thumbnail.

And, my cross-synched IFD-540 (No. 2) shows "ADS-B degraded" in its thumbnail.

When I link FLYQ-EFB by WIFI, that app shows it is getting both weather (I am getting Metars and other weather on the IFDs) AND traffic data from my No. 1 IFD, but no traffic shows on FLYQ, just like none shows on the IFD screen or in the thumbnail.

In many posts, people say they talked through this with some helpful person at Avidyne and got it working but, when I call, Avidyne customer service people tell me to call my local avionics people.  The problem is, they have told me they did what they are supposed to do and that they can't schedule me in for several weeks.  They suggest I review the settings with a helpful person from Avidyne....

Is there someone who can please walk through this with me while I am in the airplane?  I would be forever indebted (and I will send you a Texas pecan pie).

Bill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MysticCobra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 7:35am
Assuming your MLB is wired to your IFD the same way mine is, you could try the setting I have:

On the "Main RS232 Config" setup page, Channel 4 Input and Output are both set to "SkyTrax Trfc+Wx".

This is with 10.2.2.0(.A) on the IFD, and whatever the latest MLB software is.

IIRC, older versions of the MLB and/or IFD install manuals specified using ARINC429 data for traffic.  That part of the setup changed somewhere along the line (maybe with 10.2?).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Helf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 10:25am
Mystic,

Thanks for the response.

My avionics tech and I have seen so many proposed iterations of the input configurations and I recently saw one that suggested turning off the 429 input, which I will try that.

I have also seen posts that say the same as what you are suggested (mine comes in on RS232 CH 5) but also says CH.6 OUT needs to be ADS-B (+G) or something like that.

However, so many posts here praise Avidyne for walking through settings for this with folks at their aircraft so I am a bit frustrated that, when I call I am told to "get an avionics tech to do it," particularly when the avionics tech tells me he needs to know what Avidyne suggests.

Alternatively, it would be nice if Avidyne could simply post or state what inputs/outputs are required after updating the IFD to 10.2.2 and the MLB to the latest version (and maybe even label the old, historical info.

It sure is costing me a lot of money to address what seems like a problem Avidyne could help solve quickly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2019 at 1:15pm
Originally posted by Helf Helf wrote:

...t seems like a problem Avidyne could help solve quickly.
I spoke with tech support and it's not actually as simple as it might seem.  Your MLB100 and IFD are just not configured the same way.  If it was just the IFD, we could walk you through the settings in maintenance mode.  But since it affects the MLB100, you'll need to hook up to a separate configuration tool that your avionics shop should have.  Tell them to follow Service Bulletin 601-00000-004.
Steve Lindsley
Avidyne Engineering
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Helf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2019 at 4:37pm
Steve,

Thanks for the response and please pardon my lack of clarity.

What I was trying to express is that my avionics tech did upgrade the MLB100 per the SB, which I gave to him after another forum user was gracious enough to share that.

I was posting here because, having done the upgrade and settings on the MLB100, it is not clear what the settings should be on the IFD.

A review of what is posted on these forums shows several different configurations and it is not at all clear what they should be with IFD Ver. 10.2.2 and the latest MLB100 software.

For example, some posts say turn off the 429 data input while others say set the speed on the 429 data input to "high" to get traffic to show.  Some posts say that a RS232 setting of ADS-B (+G) is necessary but, is that in lieu of or in addition to, Skywatch WXandTraffic on the in and out channel to which the MLB100 and IFD are connected?

My avionics tech tells me to ask Avidyne and Avidyne tells me to ask my tech.  Surely someone at Avidyne knows what these settings should be with an updated MLB100 and IFD Ver. 10.2.2  Many posts here say someone from Avidyne walked them through that (successfully).

It doesn't seem like this should be so difficult and, in the end, I don't have important safety information.

Is there somewhere I can turn for just simple written instructions on:

1. Whether any 429 bus input should be selected and, if so, what;
2. Since my MLB is attached to CH5 on (in and out) on the RS232 interface, what should those inputs and outputs be; and
3. Does ADS-B(+G) need to be set on the RS232 page and, if so, where.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dmtidler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2019 at 6:53pm
FWIW - this is my experience going through this process almost two years ago. BTW - I posted detailed info regarding this to this forum at the time.

Prior to IFD software version 10.2.0.0, the IFD / MLB100 installation required four wires (input / outputs) for proper Skywatch operation; one ARINC 429 high speed input to the IFD for MLB100 Traffic, one RS232 output from the IFD for GPS data to the MLB100 set to Aviation, and two RS232 (one in and one out) for MLB100 Weather.

Starting with IFD software version 10.2.0.0, the above configuration still works for the Skypath traffic display; however, I believe the RS232 weather input and output settings were renamed Skytrax 100 weather.

IFD software version 10.2.0.0 also introduced the ADS-B traffic display with a different three wire configuration to the MLB100. In my case, for proper ADSB traffic display, the ARINC 429 input was turned off and no longer used. The GPS data RS232 out from the IFD now became ADS-B (+G), and the IFD RS232 in and out (now for traffic and weather) was set to Skytrax weather & traffic. There was also a corresponding MLB100 upgrade to version 4.10 as well as configuration change to accept the IFD ADS-B (+G) format output format per Avidyne SB 601-00000-002.

Now for the issues I encountered that may or may not apply to your situation:

Prior to IFD software release 10.2.0.0, the MLB100 had to use the Aviation RS232 GPS format from the IFD. I also have an engine monitor and ELT that used the same Aviation RS232 output from the IFD. This was necessary because the IFD could only output Aviation format on one RS232 channel; so all three devices were tied to the same RS232 output. Simply changing the Aviation format to ADS-B (+G) (along with the corresponding MLB100 configuration changes) would have worked for my IFD and MLB; however, would have caused my engine monitor and ELT to not have the correct GPS inputs.

With the IFD RS232 GPS and MLB100 configuration format set to Aviation, the IFD RS232 to MLB100 in/out set to Skytrax weather & traffic, and the ARINC 429 input from the MLB100 set to OFF, I had a constant ADSB Degraded message in my IFD's traffic thumbnail. Avidyne Tech support explained that the reason for the ADSB Degraded message was because Aviation format did not include a necessary time stamp in its data stream that is included with ADSB (+G) format; hence the ADSB Degraded message. Avidyne Tech support also stated that the display was fully functional under this scenario albeit with an ever present ADSB Degraded message.

The fix to get rid of the ADSB Degraded message in my case involved a trip to my Avionics shop to have my MLB100 GPS data RS232 wire untied from the other two devices and moved its own RS232 out channel in the back of the IFD. Now its data format could be set to ADSB (+G) without affecting any other connected devices and and the MLB100 configuration set to accept ADSB (+G).

Avidyne Tech Support was great help in resolving this issue for me. Unfortunately, it took my avionics shop a little while to figure out that I knew what I was talking about with my wiring change request. Once that was resolved, everything has worked since.

Lastly, after the fix, my ADSB Degraded message was replaced with a Track Degraded message in the traffic thumbnail during ground operations. This message disappears during the takeoff roll and is addressed as normal in the Avidyne IFD PG.

There is a lot of information above and I hope at least some of it is helpful in your situation. I cannot stress enough to keep Avidyne Tech Support involved with your questions.
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2019 at 8:52pm
I get that it's frustrating because you're stuck in the middle.  The best thing to do is to have your tech talk directly to Avidyne tech support about this situation.  I'm not an expert on installation, but Chris Evans in tech support is.  I'm sure that if she talks directly to them, they can discuss exactly how the system is wired and then figure out how each box should be configured.
Steve Lindsley
Avidyne Engineering
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