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New VFR Waypoint file for 1808?
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chflyer View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 Aug 2018 at 5:43pm
Is there a plan to keep the current VFR waypoint file posted on the Avidyne web site for those not yet upgraded to 10.2.1? The current file online is for cycle 1805.

I tried to configure waypoints in a route on my IFD540 on a flight in Croatia this week (IFD running 10.2.0 and navdata 1808).

Since I don't yet have 10.2.1 installed, which apparently shows the VRP wpt names on the map, I used the spreadsheet on the Avidyne web site for 1805. It was a disaster.

In the 1805 spreadsheet, the Identifier names don't correspond to the actual waypoint names and lat/long in the IFD 1808 navdata. Has this spreadsheet been supplied to Avidyne by Jepp? Has it somehow been corrupted?

The spreadsheet shows the following IFD Identifier/country/lat/long/wptname relationship for these VFR waypoints, just as an example:
- VP073/CROATIA/N45°17'44"/E014°58'29"/TOPUSKO
- VP095/CROATIA/N45°50'00"/E017°23'02"/VIROVITICA
These coordinates and name agree with the table on the paper ICAO chart and actual wpt location, but the Identifier in the IFD navdata is associated with completely different VFR waypoints.

However,
- when loading VP073 in the IFD the lat/long and waypoint name in Croatia is N45°16.58'/E14.00.71' for waypoint CEROVLJE
- when loading VP095 in the IFD the lat/long and waypoint name in Croatia is N45°45.51'/E15°54.05' for waypoint L2
Vince
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chflyer View Drop Down
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Points: 1022 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2018 at 5:28pm
As an update to the above message, attached is a link to the 1805 VFR Waypoints file from the Avidyne web site, modified on the 2nd tab to show the current real IFD VFR Waypoint ID in the 1808 navdata (taken from the IFD Trainer) vs the original ID on the spreadsheet, only for Croatia, in a new column I.


With so many errors for just one country, the confidence level in the waypoint location accuracy is very low. Unfortunately, one can only search on the identifier, not on the waypoint name (unless they are the same).

Has anyone used the VFR Waypoints under 10.2.1? I still have 10.2.0 so I don't see the waypoints on the map. But they are in the navdata. When they appear on the map in 10.2.1, is it the identifier VPnnn that is presented on the map?

Some of the VFR Waypoints in the file have 5-char identifiers just like IFR waypoints. In those cases the Identifier and waypoint name are the same. Those are easily identified in the file. But most have an identifier of the format VPnnn, different from the waypoint name. When the ID VPnnn is entered as a waypoint, a pull-down list is presented with the the list of waypoint names/countries with that ID, similar to entering a VOR or NDB with the same name in various countries. So one really needs to have the identifier showing on the map because it only exists there and in the waypoint file, which is mostly unmanageable in flight due to the large number of rows.
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Points: 2152 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2018 at 9:40am
No, we're not planning to update that list.  In fact, I'm planning to remove that list from the website, but just haven't gotten to it.

I'm not sure why those waypoint identifiers fluctuate so much.  I'd guess it's from the Jeppesen process, but can't be sure.  It definitely makes it difficult to use the VFR Waypoints, since even with them in the IFD you would have to check each cycle to make sure a given identifier is really the same as the last time you used it.

The 10.2.1 map does show both the long name and the identifier that you would put into a flight plan.  See this example image.
Steve Lindsley
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Originally posted by AviSteve AviSteve wrote:

The 10.2.1 map does show both the long name and the identifier that you would put into a flight plan.  See this example image.



That is great Steve, being essential in order to be able to match the wpt in the IFD to those on a paper chart. Thanks for the info.
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BTW Steve, is there any way to search on the VFR waypoint name as well as the ID? As far as I can see, when adding a waypoint only the 5-char ID can be entered. Correct? As long as the ID is visible on the map, ok. But if it is a considerable distance, say next to the destination 100nm away, then some scanning is needed to get it onto the map. Ok if done on the ground, but distracting in flight.

An alternate suggestion (for 10.3??) would be to add a Nearby VFR Waypoints category to the INFO tab data for an airfield, showing both name, id, coord, etc, with dct to capability just like the navaids category. I'll add this to the 10.3 request list.
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Originally posted by chflyer chflyer wrote:

BTW Steve, is there any way to search on the VFR waypoint name as well as the ID? As far as I can see, when adding a waypoint only the 5-char ID can be entered. Correct? As long as the ID is visible on the map, ok. But if it is a considerable distance, say next to the destination 100nm away, then some scanning is needed to get it onto the map. Ok if done on the ground, but distracting in flight.

An alternate suggestion (for 10.3??) would be to add a Nearby VFR Waypoints category to the INFO tab data for an airfield, showing both name, id, coord, etc, with dct to capability just like the navaids category. I'll add this to the 10.3 request list.
Correct, the FMS only accepts the five character identifier as a waypoint.  The search function on the INFO page will only search for city name, so that wouldn't help in this case.
Steve Lindsley
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Bob H View Drop Down
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Points: 290 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2018 at 5:46pm
Originally posted by AviSteve AviSteve wrote:

Originally posted by chflyer chflyer wrote:

BTW Steve, is there any way to search on the VFR waypoint name as well as the ID? As far as I can see, when adding a waypoint only the 5-char ID can be entered. Correct? As long as the ID is visible on the map, ok. But if it is a considerable distance, say next to the destination 100nm away, then some scanning is needed to get it onto the map. Ok if done on the ground, but distracting in flight.

An alternate suggestion (for 10.3??) would be to add a Nearby VFR Waypoints category to the INFO tab data for an airfield, showing both name, id, coord, etc, with dct to capability just like the navaids category. I'll add this to the 10.3 request list.
Correct, the FMS only accepts the five character identifier as a waypoint.  The search function on the INFO page will only search for city name, so that wouldn't help in this case.
The alternate suggestion is asking for a tab similar to the "Nearby Navaids" tab.  But frankly, I'm not interested in cluttering up the info area with additional tabs that are not critical to IFR flight.  If the purpose of the tab is to avoid "some scanning" when the ID is not on the screen and may be some 100nm away, I suggest simply using "Cursor View" under the FPL Tab.  That will bring the id into view quite easily without any scanning.  It will then be on the screen as desired and negates the need for a new Info Tab.

Edited by Bob H - 09 Aug 2018 at 5:48pm
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