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Flying_Monkey View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 Mar 2017 at 9:44am
With the recent announcement of the Garmin G5 being certified for use as a digital HSI I was wondering if the IFD540 can be used as the GPS and CDI/VOR source for the G5 and still meet the requirements of the STC? Am considering a dual G5 setup and am putting in a 540.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSimpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2017 at 11:51am
First, welcome to the forum!!

As far as the G5 goes, since it was just announced yesterday, it's way too early to tell. Garmin lists the 530 and 430 as compatible inputs so there's a good chance we could send it data. Additionally, Garmin likely didn't list the IFDs in their STC so we would have to list it in our Install Manual, which doesn't happen overnight, unfortunately.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flying_Monkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2017 at 6:41pm
How long do you realistically think it will take to sort this out one way or another? Days? Weeks? Months? I'm right smack in the middle of panel redo and just want to be able to make a decision. It won't be done for another month or two....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bneub111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2017 at 7:55am
I'm interested also. I've had a 540 for a couple of years. My AI and DG are old and my vacuum pump is getting quite a few hours on it. I will most likely install one or two G5's as those items fail.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSimpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2017 at 8:26am
Since they said they aren't shipping it until May, I think it's safe to say that it will be months before we know. Adding it to the install manual will not happen in the next few months.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DH82FLYER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2017 at 9:11am
The Garmin G5 requires the MapMx RS232 protocol for the external GPS connection. The IFD's can output this protocol and therefore will work with the G5. However the 'paperwork' for this connection is another matter.

The other option is to use the G5's internal GPS, either via it's own internal antenna or via a separate external GPS antenna. I have seen a number of installations using the internal antenna quite succesfully. Also, using the internal GPS is a more robust, redundant pathway. Finally, it's allowable to connect both internal and external GPS's to the one G5. In this situation the unit defaults to the internal GPS but if that subsequently fails it reverts to the external source.
Lots of choices.

Thomas


Edited by DH82FLYER - 31 Mar 2017 at 9:28am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2017 at 9:28am
The problem with the G5 in either the HSI or PDF format is that it will not connect to an autopilot.  So, if you have a King or Century autopilot that requires attitude information to drive it, it is a no go.  Most autopilots use the HSI to drive it so, it will be a no go there.

I also think the G5 may kill the GI106 because as a secondary nav head, not driving an autopilot, the cost is very similar and I'd rather have the G5.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2017 at 12:00pm
I thought the same thing-- I happen to have a GNC255 as COM2 but my CDI doesn't have glideslope, so replacing it with a G5 would give me some useful capacity even if I can't drive the AP with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DH82FLYER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2017 at 6:19pm
Originally posted by Gring Gring wrote:

The problem with the G5 in either the HSI or PDF format is that it will not connect to an autopilot.  So, if you have a King or Century autopilot that requires attitude information to drive it, it is a no go.  Most autopilots use the HSI to drive it so, it will be a no go there.

.......

Yes, autopilot connectivity is a limitation at present. However Garmin has given big hints in the last 24hrs, that they are working on the issue, especially for analog legacy autopilots. I believe these G5 instruments will be be hugely popular, as they are going to provide a relatively cheap entry into glass cockpits. From a competition point of view, it's a real pity that Avidyne appears to have 'missed the boat' for low cost glass instrumentation and finally, if I was Aspen, I would be very worried.


Edited by DH82FLYER - 31 Mar 2017 at 7:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bneub111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2017 at 12:20am
Originally posted by AviSimpson AviSimpson wrote:

Since they said they aren't shipping it until May, I think it's safe to say that it will be months before we know. Adding it to the install manual will not happen in the next few months.


From what I understand, the G5 units are all the same, can be used as an AI or HSI, and are currently available. In theory, Avidyne wouldn't need to wait until the HSI STC'd units ship to start the process...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flying_Monkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 4:39pm
Any update on G5/Avidyne 540 compatibility?  Have the HSI enabled G5 units started shipping?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DH82FLYER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 6:02pm
Yes it's available....
G5 HSI at Aircraft Spruce

Edited by DH82FLYER - 19 May 2017 at 6:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 6:44am
Nope. Garmin said they would start shipping these in mid-June. The Aircraft Spruce web site has them listed but if you add one to your cart, you'll see that it's marked as "NO STOCK - CALL".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flying_Monkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 12:38am
Originally posted by AviSimpson AviSimpson wrote:

First, welcome to the forum!!

As far as the G5 goes, since it was just announced yesterday, it's way too early to tell. Garmin lists the 530 and 430 as compatible inputs so there's a good chance we could send it data. Additionally, Garmin likely didn't list the IFDs in their STC so we would have to list it in our Install Manual, which doesn't happen overnight, unfortunately.

Any progress or update on this?  Surely I am not the only one asking for it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 7:27am
Garmin actually received the STC for the HSI version earlier this week, but I'm not sure if they're shipping yet. Still no word on autopilot pickoff, although rumor has it that they will announce something about autopilot integration at Oshkosh. I too am super interested to hear what Avidyne has to say about integrating these with the IFD540.

Right now, my NAV2 is a GNC255, and its indicator is lateral-only. I'd happily put in the HSI version of the G5, drive it from the GNC255, and get both an HSI and glideslope. But then if I wait juuuuust a little longer, maybe I can also replace my AI and lose its dependency on the vacuum system. Decisions, decisions...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSimpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 9:56am
Originally posted by Flying_Monkey Flying_Monkey wrote:

Originally posted by AviSimpson AviSimpson wrote:

First, welcome to the forum!!

As far as the G5 goes, since it was just announced yesterday, it's way too early to tell. Garmin lists the 530 and 430 as compatible inputs so there's a good chance we could send it data. Additionally, Garmin likely didn't list the IFDs in their STC so we would have to list it in our Install Manual, which doesn't happen overnight, unfortunately.

Any progress or update on this?  Surely I am not the only one asking for it!
Don't call me surely....

No update to share. Like I said before, if it were to be supported it would have to wait for a software release and much of the next software release is spoken for. We haven't received a lot of requests to date, but with it just gaining the STC that might change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 10:15am
I think Garmin came out and said that there were no plans for autopilot integration in the G5 at this time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pburger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 11:24am
I am definitely interested in the G5 as an HSI, but I would need to know that it is compatible with the IFD-540.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote comancheguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 12:39pm
This needs to move up near the top of the list.     IMHO. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flying_Monkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 1:18pm
I think most of us really want to get rid of our vacuum systems. A couple G5s is a great way to do this and the only thing stopping me from doing this now is that I chose to go with Avidyne 540 over a Garmin unit.  I really hope you guys get on board with this and try to make it happen quickly.  The GA community seems really interested in lower cost electronic, solid state attitude indicators etc and there is a lot of excitement over the G5 units.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DH82FLYER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 7:30am
Originally posted by Gring Gring wrote:


I think Garmin came out and said that there were no plans for autopilot integration in the G5 at this time.



Garmin has stated that an autopilot heading bug on the G5 HSI is a possibility. However, they then said that G5 AI autopilot integration is unlikely at this time, due to a lack of support from the FAA for such a move.

Edited by DH82FLYER - 10 Jun 2017 at 8:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote compasst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 4:33pm
To AviSimpson - I am requesting IFD 540 support for G5 devices. My Cardinal doesn't have autopilot and may not get it since it is a very stable airplane and I am happy without the autopilot for my IFR flying. I wish to replace my aged vacuum system instrumentation and would prefer to go digital with the G5 devices rather than go with Aspen or other electronic alternatives.

G5 communications support, please.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ronl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 8:05pm
Originally posted by compasst compasst wrote:

would prefer to go digital with the G5 devices rather than go with Aspen or other electronic alternatives.

G5 communications support, please.


Why the preference for G5? Just curious.
Ron L
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 9:19pm
Yes, putting in two G5s (AI + HSI) is neither cost nor function efficient. A VFR ASPEN makes a lot more sense in that scenario, and is upgradeable to full PFD/MFD function.

* Orest

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 10:52am
I'm not sure I agree with this. Purchase cost is probably close to a wash; Aspen says (http://www.aspenavionics.com/pdf/Feature%20Comparison_FF.pdf) the list price of the VFR PFD + the ACU is $5995, and Garmin's selling 2x G5 for around the same price. My understanding is that the VFR Aspen would cost significantly more to install. On top of that, 2x G5s gives you reversionary capability that I don't think you get from a single Aspen.

It's true that the IFR-unlocked Aspen has many additional capabilities missing from the G5s, including the ability to drive an analog autopilot and integrated GPSS through the ACU. You also get air data, which the G5 doesn't have (but I could get it with a $1000 ADC added to the IFD). The feature comparison chart I linked above says that the stock VFR PFD can't act as an HSI at all, and it doesn't include vertical or lateral deviation indicators either. In terms of utility, to me that makes the VFR Aspen much less useful than the G5s for the kind of flying I do. That changes the equation: now I'd be looking at at roughly $10K + install for either the VFR + the Pro upgrade or the Pro itself vs $5K + install for the G5s. For double the capital cost of the G5s, you get autopilot integration, plus some other unlockable features (synvis, wx/traffic, etc) that I probably wouldn't bother with since I have an IFD540.

Take this with a grain of salt, as I haven't flown with either an Aspen or a G5. I have about 150hrs behind the G1000, though, so I'm a glass believer, but I just don't see the value advantage for the Aspen. 

What am I missing?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 11:04am
To me, it is the ultimate upgradeability of the ASPEN that lends a lot of value to its choice. 

Which way makes more sense for a given user, would be largely determined by their future plans and needs.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 13 Jun 2017 at 11:05am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 11:06am
Fair point. But at least for me, in the airplane I fly now, there is very little likelihood that I will invest in XM wx, active traffic, or a Stormscope. Those, along with EHA, are the primary expansion capabilities the Aspen offers beyond the ability to go VFR->IFR so the value's not there for me. Now, if I win the lottery, you betcha I'd put an Aspen in my panel ASAP.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pburger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 11:29am
paulr - I think you're right on track with your analysis.  The G5's really look attractive to me.  If I knew for sure that it would play with the IFD, I'd probably buy one at Oshkosh this year.  I'd start with the HSI, and then maybe do the AI later.

Edited by pburger - 13 Jun 2017 at 10:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pburger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 11:34am
compasst --

I'm not sure if you are aware, but the TruTrak autopilot has an STC for 172's (F thru R) and the 177.  If I had a Cardinal, I'd jump on that. I think the total price is going to be around $5K + installation.  The PA28 series is coming soon (later this year hopefully), and I plan to put one in my Arrow.

And the Trio autopilot is going down a parallel path, and has an STC for the 172/182, with the PA28 series hopefully in the works, too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote compasst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 1:27pm
Thanks for the responses from all of you. My answers - 

I've flown several aircraft with the Aspen devices in them. EVERY airplane had Aspen issues - and all continue to have them, varying from HI being incorrect to complete failure AFTER being fixed and factory reman replacement. Every one of them has been worked on to fix the issues and every one of them still has issues. Latest airplane had many issues with the Aspen in it - and the Aspen failed completely in IFR conditions - I had to rely on ForeFlight AHRS to get me to the airport. Yes, it had backup panel, but that, too, was incorrect and flaky. I was relocating this airplane for a broker. The plane had just been in active 135 operations. 

Yes, Aspen is having a great sale - but not great enough for me to go with the numerous product reliability issues I have witnessed first hand. And, I find the display too compact and cluttered for my needs. After many hours flying this product, I find that it does not suit my needs well.

My airplane is IFR - so a VFR Aspen is not an option.

Although not needed, the autopilot option is possible if/when low cost device that integrates with IFD and does full GPSS and glidepath tracking becomes viable and has some track record in the field. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 4:46pm
Originally posted by pburger pburger wrote:

compasst --

I'm not sure if you are aware, but the TruTrak autopilot has an STC for 172's (F thru R) and the 177. 

My understanding is that the STC only installs provisions for an autopilot.  Actual installation and activation of the autopilot is still in the future.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 5:13pm
David, I'm not following you. An autopilot with an STC that only provisions for an autopilot sounds like a contradiction in terms to me.... what does the STC really approve? Or in other words, what is the point of installing an instrument that doesn't have any approval to do anything? Or am I missing something?

Vince
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pburger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 10:41pm
I guess I'm guilty of hijacking this thread, because I brought up TruTrak.  Yes, the install kits for the 172 and 177 are approved and available now.  The full system approval is on track to be ready for Oshkosh.

Here is the latest update from Andrew Barker from June 6, 2017:

It has been a while since I have given you all an update on how things are going, so here you go! :-)

Things are moving forward very well in the weeks since Sun N Fun when we received approval of the installation kit for the C172 and C177.  We are also currently working on installation design for the C182 and PA-28.

The majority of our time is being spent on finalization of the paperwork and flight testing required for the full system approval.  We are still very much on track to have that all completed in time to begin deliveries at AirVenture.  These are probably cumbersome and fairly boring details as far as most of you are concerned, but they are actually quite important!

On May 25th we did another flight with the FAA demonstrating failure modes and some more normal use modes of the Vizion autopilot system.  This was done in our C172 with special failure mode software installed in the autopilot.  We also were able to show them, for the first time, our TOP SECRET new feature that will be included in the Vizion system at launch in July!  They absolutely loved the feature and are very excited about it’s inclusion in the final product.  

One of our main reasons for wanting to offer the Vizion to the certified market is to improve the safety of the existing fleet.  Because of the way the Vizion autopilot is designed, the failure modes that we demonstrated to the FAA actually require multiple failures to even be possible, but we wanted to make sure that we tested and demonstrated things in the absolute worst case scenario.  During this flight we demonstrated things such as dual max servo velocity hard over failures, servo lockups, and gyro / pressure transducer failures.  Through ALL of these tests, the aircraft remains quite flyable and in the “real world” the autopilot will actually recognize these failures and automatically disconnect.  

I think that is all for now, looking forward to seeing you all in Oshkosh. 

As always, please share this email with anyone that you know that is not on the list and should be!


Edited by pburger - 13 Jun 2017 at 10:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ronl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2017 at 12:09am
compasst,
Your experience with poor reliability in Aspens is surprising to me. I've had an Aspen EFD1000 in my plane for over 5 years and never had a problem with it. I've (perhaps erroneously) always considered them quite reliable.

Edited by ronl - 14 Jun 2017 at 12:13am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LANCE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2017 at 12:59am
Originally posted by ronl ronl wrote:

compasst,
Your experience with poor reliability in Aspens is surprising to me. I've had an Aspen EFD1000 in my plane for over 5 years and never had a problem with it. I've (perhaps erroneously) always considered them quite reliable.

I have a friend who owns an avionics shop and he said they have 100's of Aspen installations and very few problems. In the few problems they've had the company has been very responsive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarkZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2017 at 7:50am
I like my Aspens but they are intolerant of any kind of static leak.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ronl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2017 at 8:25am
Originally posted by MarkZ MarkZ wrote:

I like my Aspens but they are intolerant of any kind of static leak.


Yes. IMO this is the Achilles heel of the Aspen PFD system. It's not all bad though, this is how I justified upgrading to the IFD550. :-)

From the Aspen EFD1000 pilot guide:

"4.1.2. Pitot Obstruction Monitor
Most light aircraft have only a single pitot and static system available for ight instrument use. As such, a common pitot and static input is shared between the PFD and analog standby instruments. Should one or both of these pitot and static lines become blocked, both the PFD and any standby airspeed and altitude indicators could display erroneous airspeed and altitude information. Furthermore, because the PFD uses pitot and static pressures as part of the AHRS attitude calculations, loss or corruption of the pitot or static pressures can also in uence the accuracy of the displayed attitude information.
The PFD has been tested to be robust to these failures, either by being tolerant to incorrect pitot or static inputs or by detecting and annunciating a degraded attitude solution. When connected to an IFR-certi ed GPS, the system is further able to detect and annunciate blockages in the pitot system and will fail the attitude solution before it becomes degraded. In that case, the system will red X the attitude and heading information and display a CHECK PITOT HEAT message as a reminder to the pilot to check for ice accumulating on the pitot probe.
Once the system detects that the pitot obstruction has been cleared, the CHECK PITOT HEAT annunciation is removed and the system automatically performs an AHRS in- ight reset.
Should a GPS failure be experienced in ight, the Pitot Obstruction Monitor continues to operate in a fail-safe mode and will continue to detect obstructions in the pitot system that may occur while airborne. However, after landing, the monitor remains active and as the airplane slows to taxi speeds, the system will indicate a failure of the AHRS and annunciate CHECK PITOT HEAT. In this circumstance, restoring the GPS will restore normal monitor operation.
CHAPTER 4 REFERENCE GUIDE
In summary, loss or degradation of the PFD attitude solution is unlikely if the pilot assures the proper operation of the pitot-static system. If the pitot or static system become blocked, an ADAHRS internal sensor fails, or a CROSS CHECK ATTITUDE indication is frequent or persists, the attitude indication on the PFD should be considered compromised. In this case, the pilot must use the backup attitude indicator for attitude reference until the cause of the problem has been ideate ed and resolved and normal system operation has been restored."
Ron L
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2017 at 8:57am
The BIG RED Xs with a pitot-static failure is the bane of the ASPEN, and the G500 actually. It flows from certification issues.

When I was shopping for a backup AI, I was very careful to ensure it also didn't suffer from this. I got the Sandia Quattro. It will not red X, instead it will go into a downgraded mode (with an annunciation) when there is a loss of pitot static availability, it will continue to function and show attitude.

As far as the reliability for the ASPENs, they have been rock solid. No issues in some six years or so. My shop puts in a ton of them.

* Orest





Edited by oskrypuch - 15 Jun 2017 at 11:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2017 at 10:11am
For backup attitude indication, it actually is very hard to match the separation-redundancy of a spinning gyro powered by an air or vacuum source.

A mechanical instrument can't share any failure mode with an electronic system.

Aircraft with truly redundant electrical systems (two alternators, two regulators, two batteries, two busses) carry more system weight than a single electrical system plus a single vacuum system.

I'm all for primary electronic displays, but I'll stay mechanical for my backups, thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote comancheguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2017 at 2:57pm
Hear Hear!   I want an aspen or a G5 for Primary.  But, I'll be keeping the Vacuum pump / AI. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2017 at 4:31pm
I spent the money and purchased an L3 ESI500 for my backup. It works great and had localizer and glideslope on it so you have everything on one stand by gauge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2017 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by Gring Gring wrote:

I spent the money and purchased an L3 ESI500 for my backup. It works great and had localizer and glideslope on it so you have everything on one stand by gauge.

Was considering that, after you mentioned it. But at the time had to make it happen quick, and they had a Sandia in stock.

Is there VSI on the ESI500?

* Orest

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2017 at 7:27pm
There is VSI, track (heading optional with a magnetometer), optional Synthetic Vision.  It's really nice AND certified as primary or backup to G500/600 and Aspen.

The Sandia Quattro technically is not approved with Aspen due to the certification standard and how it degrades with the loss of air speed.


Edited by Gring - 15 Jun 2017 at 7:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2017 at 8:17pm
Originally posted by Gring Gring wrote:

The Sandia Quattro technically is not approved with Aspen due to the certification standard and how it degrades with the loss of air speed.

The Quatro will continue functioning, even with the pitot out, and the ASPEN red X'd. My shop had no issues using it.

* Orest

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2017 at 9:08pm
Yes, but read the detail in the Aspen install manual regarding backup and then read the section in the Quattro manual about failure modes. They are incompatible. It has been 18mths since I researched it and forget the details.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobsV35B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2017 at 10:07pm
I guess it is time for me to put in a vote for the classic T&B as a last ditch safety backup. Nothing else looks like a T&B and if the T&B is wiggling, it is working. My aircraft is all electric with the exception of a venturi powered vacuum T&B.

Stop the turn and you will survive!

Who cares which way is up?  Stopping the turn is the key.

My venturi is mounted just aft of the exhaust stack. Will not ice up as long as the engine is running.

It was good enough for the air mail pilots. It is good enough for me!

Happy Skies,

Old Bob

PS I also have one electric T&B in the panel.
Old Bob, Ancient Aviator
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2017 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by Gring Gring wrote:

Yes, but read the detail in the Aspen install manual...

Well, as I understand it, both the L3 & Sandia in part rely on pitot to compute/crosscheck an attitude solution. With that absent, they both degrade in performance, but still pass muster for keeping the dirty side down. Both are TSO'd as backup units, the G5's are not.

Out of academic interest will have another look at the ASPEN install manual. But, IIRC it seems to me that the install manual was changed in and around that time, with respect to permitted backup units.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 15 Jun 2017 at 11:34pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2017 at 11:37pm
Just looking through the ASPEN install Rev. C., section 5.2 (pg 31-203). I don't see anything there that would restrict any electronic backup AI, as long as it is on a separate bus OR on an independent backup battery.

It notes that installing such is not covered by the ASPEN STC. The backup instruments themselves must have valid paperwork.

* Orest

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ronl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2017 at 3:15am
Originally posted by DavidBunin DavidBunin wrote:

but I'll stay mechanical for my backups, thanks.


When all the pretty screens go dark inside a wet bumpy cloud it is very comforting to cast ones eyes on the face of an old friend:


Ron L
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurboPA30 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 4:01pm
Had TWO vacuum pump failures since I installed my Aspen. No problem with the Aspen.
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