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Cooling Issues

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JBSmitty View Drop Down
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    Posted: 25 Jul 2016 at 7:32pm

Hello,

Was curious what you experience is on how 'hot' the IFD 540/440 run.  They seem to run hot to me after installation.  I have an upgraded 5-port cooling fan that kept my G430s cool.  Autopilot and audio panel seem fine in this Cirrus installation.

Jim

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oskrypuch View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2016 at 10:14pm
You can review the running temps in the maintenance pages and in the logs. If you get no on screen user warnings (yellow) or alerts (red) on temp, then there are no issues.

The IFDs are much better at shedding heat than the GNS units, especially the GNS530.

* Orest

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote luchetto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 6:31pm
Orest, I would not subscribe to that, the IFDs need much more cooling than the 530. I had a 530/430 combo which never missed a beat and felt luke warm to the touch at max. In my TB21, which has an extra cooling fan I had to exchange both the 540 and 440 due to a red overheat alert. I had to add hoses to both NACA inlets which deliver ram air to the back of the avionics stack and if I close the naca inlets it doesn't take long to get a yellow warning?

The bezel of the Avidynes is always very hot and the screen is much hotter than the Garmins. I love the boxes but its not only sunshine.

Placido
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 7:19pm
There is a design air exchange through slats in the front bezel on the IFDs, that will mean that the front panel will be warmer, as it participates in the heat dissipation. Also, it may be that in your TB21, these are partially blocked, if the radio stack is inset -- which I believe it is?

I haven't seen any heat issues on my IFD.

* Orest

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JBSmitty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JBSmitty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 11:15pm
Heat is horrible to electronics....which is why I am concerned. I'll check the logs, but I have had no warnings. The outside bezel, however, is much hotter than my previous dual 430s. I'd say it's similar to how hot the 430s ran before I upgraded the cooling fan.
Jim Smith, SR22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AzAv8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 12:15am
Yep, heat is hard on electronics - when it is not managed appropriately.  I think that is the point.  I'm pretty sure the G* products *require* the external cooling source.  Avidyne designed the IFDs to work without external cooling, but to achieve that I believe the bezel  must extend out in front of the panel so cool(er) air from the cockpit can be pulled through the IFD and exhausted behind the panel.  And the bezel is also intentionally a heat sink (a feature the Aspens also incorporate), so one should expect it to get warm.   I fly in the Phoenix area; it gets *mighty* hot around here, but I've never had any indications of an overheat in the IFD.   I try not to fly when it's above 110 deg F, but I often fly when it is above 100 and the sun is beating down on the black top of the panel.  And since installing the IFD I've arrived at home airport more than once after a long trip with a ground temperature of above 110.  That is with no external cooling source, including removal of the Cessna external air duct behind the panel, (something I'll restore in the future.) 

But our bezel extends out from the panel such that there is no impediment to airflow.  The bezel of the IFD and the Aspen get quite warm, but I've not seen any signs of an overtemperature condition (except in my wife, the grandkids, the oil, the CHTs, the iPad...  BTW, my wife's iPad is unusable when its toasty.  It overheats and shuts down, as did its two predecessors.  But my Android tablets and phone?  So far, they keep on tickin' - five different devices so far, between phones and tablets. )

Jon

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote luchetto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 2:51am
Yes, in the TBs avionics do not protrude but then the slats are also not completely blocked. In my case I need to provide much more cooling to the two boxes than what I needed to do with the two Gs. I would buy the IFDs again but I think it will save both the prospective buyer and the company itself a lot of hassle if the buyer is fully informed about the correct installation requirements.It is absolutely not a show stopper during initial installation but a great nightmare once you have the red warning, especially for overseas clients.

Placido
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clydeps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 7:12pm
Originally posted by luchetto luchetto wrote:

I had a 530/430 combo which never missed a beat and felt luke warm to the touch at max. 
That had a lot to do with the fact that the Garmins have a plastic bezel, so the temperature to touch does not give a good indication of the internal temperature. My 430s would get a white cast to the screen when they got very hot. The IFD bezel is metal so a lot of heat is transmitted through it to the environment.

My 440s are running hot - I have measured the bezel temperature at 50C on occasion.  This is within spec (they are specified to run in an ambient temp of 55) but I am getting a new avionics fan installed anyway. The cooler they can be kept the better for their longevity.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 7:22pm
Originally posted by clydeps clydeps wrote:

My 440s are running hot

Mine too. Hot to the touch for sure and especially on long day flights above any cloud deck. Mine are in a Columbia center stack (similar to Cirrus) with two 440s, Audio Panel, AXP-340, STEC 55X. Received warnings on #2, the lower one. Uploaded logs... GPS for #2 antenna appeared to be pulling more voltage than normal and coincidentally I was also seeing GPS errors. Suspected internal short of GPS antenna. That would certainly have caused more heat. So we RMA'd the antenna and replaced... we'll see. But while we were looking it's pretty clear there wasn't great air supply to the units so we drilled some new holes for ventilation. These boxes are doing a lot with a lot of data... the cooler the better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brou0040 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 8:41pm
Originally posted by clydeps clydeps wrote:

This is within spec (they are specified to run in an ambient temp of 55)

Sounds like AzAv8r and I better put our shades in when not in a hanger.  Hottest I've flown in was 118, but I also try not to fly (or at least start flying) during the heat of the day.  I've never measured the interior temp when it's been in the sun (I'm usually hangered), but I'm sure the dash (not panel face) goes over 131 deg F.  At least my panel itself is shaded by the high wing during the middle of the day when it is outside.  Once the big fan is blowing, that gets ambient air inside, but I'm wondering about heat soaking my 540.  If I remember, I'll take a look at the temp on the mx page when I first start up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote psimpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 10:42pm
Tom:

I've got a Columbia and having the same problem with #2 getting hot.  I drilled some holes and think it helped some but still getting some yellow flags.  I'm seeing some errors as well and sometimes have them both give the terrain warning when I'm nowhere near terrain. Also some false 500' callouts when on the ground.
'
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2016 at 1:26am
Originally posted by psimpson psimpson wrote:

Also some false 500' callouts when on the ground.

You gave me the idea for the holes; I haven't flown long enough to test the new ventilation yet.  I also infrequently get 500' callouts on the ground. Always makes me laugh and I just take off anyway. Glitches.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote psimpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2016 at 7:35am
Where did you get the evidence that the GPS antenna was pulling more voltage?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2016 at 11:18am
Originally posted by psimpson psimpson wrote:

Where did you get the evidence that the GPS antenna was pulling more voltage?

E-mailed the logs to support. I'd also been fighting GPS issues, this finally gave us the clue we needed (I hope)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2016 at 12:19pm
I notice that both my IFD540s run cool with the forced air cooling the Bonanza has from the root vent. My AMX240 though runs quite hot and I suspect that is from the lighting, but I don't know for sure.
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