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jblodgett View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 Jul 2016 at 4:49pm
My IFD540 has an annoying delay when you push the ptt switch before the transmitter comes up. You have to push the ptt, wait a second and then talk, otherwise the first word out of your mouth gets clipped. I have noticed this on other IFD540s as well. It is especially bad when two aircraft with 540s try to talk to each other.

Is there any plan to correct this? I hate having to resort to my ancient KX155 to communicate because of this annoying trait but that is what I find myself doing more and more.

Thanks,
Jim Blodgett
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2016 at 6:59pm
What software level are you at? They did a COM update to fix some issues with it relating to transmit.
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Version 10.1.1. That is the latest, right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2016 at 7:55pm
Nope. 

10.1.2 is the latest, and fixes this.

* Orest

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jblodgett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2016 at 9:10pm
When did this come out? I can find no reference to it on the Avidyne website and I received no notification about it. Am I the only person that has not heard about this??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2016 at 6:39am
It was fixed before 10.1.2.0 .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pburger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2016 at 9:22am
10.1.1 included a fix for issues with pilot controlled lighting.  This may be your issue, but if you have 10.1.1, you should already have this fix: 

Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

To update the initial posted list of Release 10.1.1.0 content, here's what it has as released:
...
12. Improve Pilot Controlled Lighting/Super AWOS Triggering - Improves the quick on/off cycling of the VHF transmit function to permit the 5 click in 5 seconds and 7 click in 5 second triggers for PCL and Super AWOS. Previously, quick mic clicks could be missed due to slow transmit or clipping behaviors. (Bug Fix)
...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jblodgett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2016 at 10:09am
Apparently 10.1.2 is not the latest.  Apparently as of June 23 it is 10.1.3. 

As for the problem being fixed in 10.1.1 that is not the case because that is the version I have.  The fix may have worked for pilot controlled lighting but the delay is still there. 

Has anyone else noticed this?  I have experienced this on multiple occasions.  I do a fair amount of formation flying and in the de-briefs after every flight other pilots will mention the clipping of the first spoken word.  On two occasions, in group flights talking to other aircraft that also have IFDs it has been very noticeable. 


Edited by jblodgett - 05 Jul 2016 at 10:19am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2016 at 11:25am
I have 2 IFD540 at 10.1.1.0 level and fly formation. No issues with either unit four COM delay.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jblodgett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2016 at 1:01pm
I guess I am going to have to set up a scope to trigger off the PTT and measure the rise time of the transmitter.  Then maybe people will believe me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSimpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2016 at 3:42pm
Have you had a chance to talk with our tech support team? I believe the ppt switch is interfaced with the audio panel and not the IFD directly. What audio panel do you have?
Simpson Bennett
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teeth6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2016 at 10:04am
It's not a question of not believing you.  It's just that others have not experienced this.  You mentioned it is especially bad when 2 540s talk to each other.  Does the other person you mentioned, also experience this on their own?   I have not seen mention of this from anyone before so as Simpson mentioned, perhaps it is an issue with the PTT or the audio panel?  Please keep us posted as I like to hear the outcome.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobsV35B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2016 at 11:55am
I believe you JIM!

Happy Skies,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jblodgett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2016 at 9:53pm
Thanks Bob. I have a PS Engineering PMA450 audio panel. I have spoken to Mark at PS Engineering about this and while he is skeptical it can be related to the audio panel he has suggested a test that will positively determine if it is anything to do with the audio panel. I will try that test before the next step but currently the airplane is in the shop for a cylinder change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pburger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2016 at 10:45am
FYI:

I have an IFD-540 and a PMA-450.  I am running 10.1.1, and have no transmit delay that I have noticed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2016 at 6:39pm
Jim,

I just went out to the Hangar to check on what you are talking about.  I agree with you, there is a split second delay on the transmission.  The way I tested it was the 4 click test mic on a SuperAWOS system.  I had not noticed it before, but it is there for sure, and both of my units operate the same during multiple tests.  I'm running 10.1.1.0.

Hopefully Jake will see this and comment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LarryPetro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2016 at 9:29am
I have the same problem with the beginning of transmissions being clipped.  I have an IFD540/10.1.1.0 and an AMX240.  Pressing PTT quickly does activate SuperAWOS transmissions and PCL.  But, my audio transmissions are clipped, if I'm not careful.  My solution has been an attempt to train myself to wait for a second, or so, after pressing PTT before I begin to talk.
Larry Petro - Columbia 350 @ KFME
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobsV35B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2016 at 10:26am
For What It Is Worth, have you compared the delay with Avidyne equipment to the delay with other brands? I have owned several airplanes wiTh various brands of equipment over the last sixty years or so that needed a half second or so waiting time after pressing the mike button before I started talking. Has anyone put a scope on this to actually time various installations?

HappySkies,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LarryPetro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2016 at 11:38am
I previously had a Garmin audio panel (340 I believe). I had no problems with it and the same 540 and PTT.
Larry Petro - Columbia 350 @ KFME
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LarryPetro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2016 at 11:41am
I pushed the PTP key too quickly. It was a 530W + 340 combination that had no problem with clipping.
Larry Petro - Columbia 350 @ KFME
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote George Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2016 at 1:42pm
That is why in the olde days they always started a transmission with "uhh".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobsV35B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2016 at 2:19pm
Uhhh! Who's that again?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AUXAIR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2016 at 6:40am
Uhhhh...hunh?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jblodgett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2016 at 8:26pm
Originally posted by BobsV35B BobsV35B wrote:

For What It Is Worth, have you compared the delay with Avidyne equipment to the delay with other brands? I have owned several airplanes wiTh various brands of equipment over the last sixty years or so that needed a half second or so waiting time after pressing the mike button before I started talking. Has anyone put a scope on this to actually time various installations?

HappySkies,

Old Bob


Bob,

My #2 radio is a KX-155 and it does not display this tendency to clip at all.

-Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jblodgett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2016 at 8:29pm
Originally posted by Gring Gring wrote:

Jim,

I just went out to the Hangar to check on what you are talking about.  I agree with you, there is a split second delay on the transmission.  The way I tested it was the 4 click test mic on a SuperAWOS system.  I had not noticed it before, but it is there for sure, and both of my units operate the same during multiple tests.  I'm running 10.1.1.0.

Hopefully Jake will see this and comment.


Thank you for running this test.  I am finally beginning to get some traction here and on Beechtalk about this.  Hopefully Avidyne will respond.  To date they still say they haven't seen the problem.

-Jim


Edited by jblodgett - 14 Jul 2016 at 8:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2016 at 9:02pm
Never seen the problem.  It doesn't exist.  It's all in your head.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2016 at 9:03pm
Okay, we'll add it to the to-do list.  No idea when we'll get to it.    Just a few things going on.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jblodgett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2016 at 9:10pm
Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

Okay, we'll add it to the to-do list.  No idea when we'll get to it.    Just a few things going on.....


Are you going to be at Oshkosh?  I would like to discuss this with you.

-Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2016 at 9:14pm
Technically yes, I will be at Oshkosh on Monday and Tuesday.  I have wall-to-wall meetings scheduled with no breaks at this point but we'll see.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2016 at 3:18pm
Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

Never seen the problem.  It doesn't exist.  It's all in your head.


HA!  Good one, Steve.  I actually laughed out loud!

I agree that the transmit delay is a real thing, but it hasn't been a problem for me in my operation and I can't say that it is unique to the IFD products.  Seems like many "modern digital radios" have this pause that the old dumb analog radios don't.

David

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AUXAIR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2016 at 1:38pm

Very true, David.

In the bad old days, transmit delays were measurable, but miniscule, as you waited while a relay pulled in to transmit.  Barely noticeable.

Then, some years later, delays were mostly shortened while you waited for a transistor junction or two to activate.  Mostly un-noticeable.

Now delays are dependent on timing while software loops are activated, on how efficient the designer was able to make them, and how they relate to all the other loops in progress.  The new 10.1.1 appears pretty good to me, and does not clip my audio - but I am a broadcast engineer, and used to taking a short beat before speaking to make sure the "pot" is open.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobsV35B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2016 at 3:33pm
Good Afernoon AuxAir, 

Speaking of the "Bad Old Days", there was a time when just hitting a couple clicks was considered adequate affirmation even though no words were spoken. That was especially true of LaGuardia and Chicago Midway. I suppose that was what has driven many of we older folks to hesitate just a moment or so after we hit the mikebutton before we speak.  Pilots have habits which need to change just the same as the needs of equipment change.

Happy Skies,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 3:56pm
I still use the mic click "zipper" technique to acknowledge some calls.  But the point of the response is to say we believe those of you who are reporting the issue.  We haven't started looking into it yet, but plan to do so some time after the Oshkosh dust settles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n7ifr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 4:25pm
I also notice this delay, about a full 1/2 second holding the PTT before the side tone is audible and to avoid clipping.
Using v10.1.1 and Dual 540's with AMX240 audio panel.

I noticed other Avidyne users on the Bonanza Forum with their IFD540's experiencing same.

Pretty annoying, but getting used to the delay, - slowed down the PTT 5-7 pushes for lighting, and it works.

Tom Wolf

P.S. - any News on v10.2 or TAS - A software upgrades ???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 4:32pm
It's funny.  I haven't explicitly looked/listened for this delay but I never experience it nor am told by ATC I have it.   I'm not saying it's not there, it's just my normal way of using the radio has not made it remotely noticeable for me.

Like I said, we'll take a real look at it when Oshkosh dust settles.

As for 10.2 - it won't be approved in time for Oshkosh.  But, it's not far off.     You can be sure we'll scream it from the mountains when it's approved.

As for TAS-A - check out this thread if not already aware.  I don't share David's feeling of this not sounding promising but I do understand the eagerness from everyone to get this in the airplane:  http://forums.avidyne.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=757&title=ok-nearly-end-of-summer

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ddgates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 8:40pm
Please see my response post in the appropriate forum.

I agree with you, bringing promise to fruition heals all perceived wounds.

And, BTW, for the record I believe you all are trying hard and are delivering good products.


Edited by ddgates - 22 Jul 2016 at 8:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LANCE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 5:49pm
I just completed a 4.5 hour flight today and was specifically looking for this issue - it is absolutely not there on my IFD 540. I have 10.1.3 installed and my Audio Panel is a PS engineering 7000BT. There is no delay whatsoever.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n7ifr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 5:58pm
Lance,

Not sure if this implies an issue in the AMX240 audio Panel... just completed a 2+ hr flight today and consistently had a 1/2 second delay with each push of the PTT button before full volume of side tone was audable.

BTW, does anybody know how to reduce the volume of the transmit sidetone (heard in headset).  Mine is very loud background squelch noise with PTT pushed fortransmit.  No apparent way to reduce this with 540 or audio panel.

Tom Wolf

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 6:03pm
Originally posted by LANCE LANCE wrote:

I just completed a 4.5 hour flight today and was specifically looking for this issue - it is absolutely not there on my IFD 540. I have 10.1.3 installed and my Audio Panel is a PS engineering 7000BT. There is no delay whatsoever.

Lance,  That is what I thought too, and even argued it, but when I did my tests with something that plays back what you hear, it is there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teeth6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 9:44pm
Strange. My PS Engineering audio panel records all transmissions and anytime I've listened to my transmission, it has never been clipped.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n7ifr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2016 at 10:24am
On 2-hr X'cntry Flight yesterday, ABQ-Center noted early transmission clipping of my audio... had to repeat and they confirmed.

It is tough to know where the fault lies: PTT button, AMX240, IFD540, etc.  At least I now have some reality on this from ATC.

Tom Wolf
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jblodgett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2016 at 9:38am
How about an update on this? I am getting complaints from all of my formation flying friends about this and have resorted to just using my old KX-155. I was going to add a 440 but now I won't because I need a radio that won't clip the first spoken word without waiting a second before speaking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LANCE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 11:03pm
I have the PS Engineering 7000 Bluetooth with an IFD540, latest software- never had a complaint about audio clipping.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 8:11am
I believe the problem to be with the IFD540 and not the audio panel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSimpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 10:00am
We are still investigating the issue.
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