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Melohn View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 Jan 2023 at 10:53pm
I’m a new IFD 440 owner.

My routine with my GNS 430W was to plan all of my flights at home on ForeFlight, and then upload them into the panel when I get to the plane. This also works well for an out and back flight; while the navigator forgets the route after shutdown, ForeFlight remembers, and a simple upload gets the plan back onboard. No need to use a saved route.

One byproduct of this usage model is that each waypoint that does not correspond to a charted waypoint is stored as a user waypoint in the navigator. On the GNS over time these waypoints clog the display up, and since I have no reason to keep them, every once in a while I’ll go into the user waypoints list and select the menu item “Delete all User Waypoints”. Problem solved.

Now, with the IFD, not only will I create new user waypoints, I may also start collecting rubber band waypoints when I modify routes, which appear also to be stored in the IFD user waypoint space. Happily, they don’t show on the map unless you reference them in a route, but they do still collect in the WPT display. 

How can I mass delete all of these waypoints? I’m thinking that creating a blank excel spreadsheet and importing it might do the trick, but if there is an easier way, short of individually CLRing each one, I’d like to know what it is.

Thanks!



Edited by Melohn - 03 Jan 2023 at 10:59pm
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AviSteve View Drop Down
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Sorry, at this point the IFD doesn't provide a method for deleting all user waypoints with a single button press.
Steve Lindsley
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chflyer View Drop Down
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The Pilot Guide (IFD 500 series p7-77 "IMPORTANT NOTE") states that when uploading user waypoints from a CSV file, the CSV file will completely replace the set of user waypoints in the IFD.

This is incorrect (10.3.1.2). I uploaded a CSV file with user waypoints yesterday and the waypoints were merged in with the existing user waypoints on the IFD. It would be nice if it would work as described in the Pilot Guide. It would be a relatively easy way to accomplish what Melohn is requesting..... export the user waypoints to a CSV file, update the file removing the undesired waypoints, then upload the new CSV file without the deleted waypoints. 
Vince
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Do you have a single IFD or dual, cross-synced IFDs?  Do you use the IFD100?
Steve Lindsley
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chflyer View Drop Down
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I have dual, cross-synced IFDs. I loaded the CSV into only one, expecting the 2nd to sync to the first. But I see where you're going with the question...... 
If I want to replace the user waypoints with a new CSV file contents, are you suggesting that I need to power off both IFDs and load the new CSV into both before bringing them online together?
Vince
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chflyer View Drop Down
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As a point of interest, what role would the IFD100 play considering that there is no maintenance mode on the IFD100 and it is not possible to upload a CSV file into the IFD100?

Similar question regarding the IFD Trainer. 


Edited by chflyer - 22 Oct 2024 at 10:21am
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Yes, the IFDs will sync the user waypoints.  So you can either load the CSV into both or delete all of them from the second one before you load the CSV into the first one.

I asked about the IFD100 just in case it would have tried to sync its waypoints to the IFD as well.  Best to just clear them all from everywhere before uploading the CSV into one.
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chflyer View Drop Down
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All clear. If there are many (100+) to be deleted, then the quicker alternative is to have both IFD powered down and load the same CSV into both before powering them up again.

Deleting waypoints one at a time is a laborious process if there are many. As mentioned in another thread, if flights are planned at home with ForeFlight and then loaded to the IFD in the cockpit, all the FF VFR waypoints are created in the IFD as new user waypoints since unknown to the IFD even though they already exist as VFnnn. 
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Melohn View Drop Down
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Originally posted by AviSteve AviSteve wrote:

Yes, the IFDs will sync the user waypoints.  So you can either load the CSV into both or delete all of them from the second one before you load the CSV into the first one.

I asked about the IFD100 just in case it would have tried to sync its waypoints to the IFD as well.  Best to just clear them all from everywhere before uploading the CSV into one.

There doesn’t appear to be a way to delete all waypoints on the IFD trainer or IFD100. However, it’s a lot easier, albeit annoying, to press the CLR button on your iPad at home versus sitting in the cockpit with the power on trying to do the same thing.

I don’t think I understand the logic about syncing between the IFD 100 app and the IFD devices; some times, the app seems to be busy syncing routes and presumably waypoints, while other times it doesn’t seem to even try. Some manual control or method to monitor what it’s doing and how far along might be helpful.

I’ve turned off the ForeFlight feature to sync user waypoints, as recommended by Avidyne, and it has made the flight plan transfer much more reliable. However, some form of transfer, perhaps in the background, might be helpful someday, particularly since it is easy to delete all waypoints from ForeFlight. 

I have found that if you use the same waypoints from a stored route on ForeFlight, they will not create new waypoints on the IFD. However, for those of us who fly complex search patterns that are one time only, the number of junk waypoints does pile up, and it would be helpful to have a way to just clear them out.



Edited by Melohn - 22 Oct 2024 at 2:46pm
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chflyer View Drop Down
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Originally posted by AviSteve AviSteve wrote:

Yes, the IFDs will sync the user waypoints.  So you can either load the CSV into both or delete all of them from the second one before you load the CSV into the first one.

I asked about the IFD100 just in case it would have tried to sync its waypoints to the IFD as well.  Best to just clear them all from everywhere before uploading the CSV into one.

I don't seem to be doing this right. I have an IFD540 and IFD440, both set up with cross-sync on RS232 ports (in/out) 3. The two units cross sync flight plans, but don't seem to cross sync user waypoints. 

As mentioned, my user waypoint list was getting filled with "dummy" VFR waypoints created when transferring ForeFlight routes including VFR waypoints to the IFD540, since Jepp names them differently in the IFD navdata and the IFD doesn't recognize them when they come from ForeFlight with ForeFlight's naming convention. I have quite a few personal user waypoints that I would like to keep, so I saved them to the USB stick in maintenance mode as described in the IFD PG. I then modified the CSV file to remove all the unwanted waypoints and just keeping those of interest. The instructions in the PG are very good and all worked as expected up to the point of loading them back into the IFDs.

However, the IFD's don't seem to be cross syncing the user waypoints as expected. I powered off both IFD's and then loaded the new waypoints from from USB CSV file in maintenance mode, first into the IFD540 and then into the IFD440. When both units were powered back up, the new waypoint list is fine in the IFD540 but it has been cleared in the IFD440. Note that I powered up each IFD individually (with the other off) after loading the new waypoints, just to be sure that each IFD had properly loaded the new waypoints.

Anyone know how to get the user waypoints properly sync'd between two IFD's?

Here is what I see with both units powered on:


When I enter a route in the IFD540, the route is cross sync'd fine to the IFD440. But when I add one of the IFD540 user waypoints to the route, the waypoint is not properly sync'd to the IFD440. See below. Note that the waypoint in the IFD440 is unnamed and is located at an entirely different location than the waypoint in the IFD540.




Edited by chflyer - 03 Nov 2024 at 9:41am
Vince
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I don't think it's you Vince.  I did some experimentation here.  Once the boxes are in sync, it all works correctly.  But when I uploaded the CSV to just one box, they didn't synch as I expected.  We'll continue to investigate.
Steve Lindsley
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Some more info on this.

Starting point: a new user waypoint file was been loaded into both IFD540 and IFD440, using same process as navdata monthly update. At some point, both units showed the same new user waypoint list.... not sure exactly how the cross-sync arrived at this (correct) situation, but all looked good.

1) New flight: both units showing synced user waypoints OK.
2) Next new flight (days later): after power-on via avionics power switch, IFD540 showed no user waypoints ("no user waypoints defined message" shown instead of waypoint list), IFD440 showed correct list of user waypoints.
3) power cycled avionics (via avionics power switch), IFD540 showed correct list of user waypoints, IFD440 showed no user waypoints.
4) powered off both units (avionics power switch still on), powered on IFD440 and it showed correct list of user waypoints. Left IFD440 showing user waypoint list (FMS/WPT).
5) powered on IFD540 in maint mode to update charts only from usb, then DONE and let restart. When IFD540 restarted, the IFD440 user waypoint list disappeared.
6) powered off IFD540. Still now user waypoints showing on IFD440.
7) powered IFD440 off/on (IFD540 still off).... user waypoint list came back on the IFD440.
8) powered on IFD540 (IFD440 still showing user waypoints at FMS/WPT). User waypoint list shown correctly on the IFD540 (i.e. on both units) briefly, then the user waypoint list disappeared on the IFD540.

Currently, if I power both units off and then power them on sequentially one after the other, the user waypoints remain on the first IFD to be powered up and the list is missing on the second IFD to be powered on..... i.e. Power on IFD540 first and wait until fully powered up with user waypoints, then power on IFD440, user waypoint list missing from IFD440. Power on IFD440 first and wait until fully powered up with user waypoints, then power on IFD540, user waypoint list missing from the IFD540.
I was able to reproduce this consistently and its a pain. The IFD540 takes more time to power on than the IFD440 (due to charts?), so normal power-on of avionics switch means that the user waypoints are listed in the IFD440 and not in the IFD540. Since the IFD540 is unit 1 and IFD440 is unit 2, and BK is active only on the IFD540, I need to manually power off both units after the first power up using avionics switch and then manually power on the IFD540, wait until fully complete, and then power on the IFD440. That way the user waypoint list is in the IFD540 and the BK is usable. Any FPL using user waypoints doesn't sync properly to the IFD440.



Edited by chflyer - 08 Dec 2024 at 9:12am
Vince
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We found the source of the problem.  We've implemented a change that will solve the problem in 10.3.2.2.

In the release after that, we plan on changing the system such that user waypoints will no longer need to be synched.  That will eliminate the issue altogether.
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Regarding the release after 10.3.2.2, does that mean that user wpt lists will need to be manually maintained separately, and if sync desired then saved on one unit and subsequently loaded into the other?

P.S. Is the current (latest available) AviOS release listed anywhere on the web site, so owners can check themselves to see if it has changed? Dealers don‘t normally proactively notify owners of new releases.


Edited by chflyer - 11 Dec 2024 at 9:56am
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Originally posted by chflyer chflyer wrote:

Regarding the release after 10.3.2.2, does that mean that user wpt lists will need to be manually maintained separately, and if sync desired then saved on one unit and subsequently loaded into the other?
The details haven't been completely worked out yet, but I suspect we'll end up allowing you to define user waypoints on one IFD, then manually share them with the other IFDs.  We've redesigned the stored routes system in 10.3.2.2 to work like that.

Originally posted by chflyer chflyer wrote:

P.S. Is the current (latest available) AviOS release listed anywhere on the web site, so owners can check themselves to see if it has changed? Dealers don‘t normally proactively notify owners of new releases.
See this pinned topic in the forum about releases.
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Sounds great! Thanks.
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I’d appreciate a soft key function to delete all stored waypoints, versus having to sync an empty copy of the CSV file. It would be great if waypoints and routes were similar in their management.

My biggest problem now with stored routes and waypoints revolves around loading data to and from ForeFlight; while I don’t mind having the transfer function from FF to the panel put the route in stored routes, it’s always complex to keep track of the name of the route uploaded, which is painful to set on ForeFlight. Suggestions have already been made about how to make the “Route Update Available” prompt more helpful in this regard. 

It would also be great to have an option that keeps the FF flight plan in sync with changes made on the IFD. This happens now manually if you “load from panel”, but the automated mechanism that Garmin uses is easier to keep track of. 

Since Bluetooth is available on the IFD, perhaps supporting the Connext mechanism would be something to consider?
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I think you'll like the new stored route system in 10.3.2.2.  Bluetooth isn't an option at this point.
Steve Lindsley
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