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First flight with IFD440s

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clydeps View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 Jan 2016 at 4:26am
I flew with my new IFD 440s today for the first time. They generally worked well, but I had a few issues - some of which I have now learnt more about by reading the manual, but which were not intuitively obvious at the time.

1) The map was stuck in North up orientation - which is not even one of the options in the setup. I tried heading up and track up in the user setup with no success. I now read in the manual that North up toggles by pressing the bottom right knob. I did not figure that out in flight.

2) The "Class C ahead" alerts drove me crazy. Firstly, I was IFR so it wasn't an issue, but some of them were spurious, e.g. immediately after takeoff I got an alert because there is class C at 1500 ft. I wasn't going to enter that, but it alerted me anyway, which is not what I needed at the time. A little later I went into the setup to try to turn those off, but could not do so. I now read in the manual that there is a "setup FMS" selection, but this was not available in flight, only "User options", and the only thing I could do there was toggle the audible alert, not the CAS alert. I don't have the plane handy today to check this on the ground but will do so tomorrow.

3) Entering user waypoints was complicated by the fact that the numeric keypad presentation hides most of the data field that is being edited.

4) What I really loved was flying a GPS approach. Here in Oz we have no WAAS so there are no LNAV/VNAV or LPV approaches, but I got LNAV+V on a GPS approach, and the FMS view shows the altitude limitations for the fixes - apart from briefing the MDA and missed approach, I did not need to look at the approach chart. From the FAF I got a glideslope on the PFD and flew it as a coupled approach - just magic.

5) The COM frequency selection was good, but not quite as good as I expected. Twisting the knob brings up a list of frequencies, but half the time the one I wanted wasn't in there - the departure frequency, some en-route centre frequencies, and the destination AWIS did not appear - but once I dialled them in I did get the text saying what they were, so they are in the database somewhere.

6) The IFDs get very hot! They were in sunlight and remained completely readable, unlike the 430s that get a white cast when hot, but both the screen and the sides of the bezel got hot enough that touching them was unpleasant. I am somewhat surprised by this - I expected them to run cooler than the 430s.

7) Some of the touch-sensitive fields are quite small and it's easy to press the wrong thing. The knobs are more useful than I expected.

8) I could not find anywhere to display GPS status - i.e. satellites in view and use. Not essential I suppose, but I've had issues with other equipment where this information has been useful so I don't see why it's absent.

9) The COM radio is quite loud. On the ground I found I needed the volume turned down to only one click above silent. Needed a little more in the air, but it does seem to be louder than the 430s were.

I still have to decide how to set up the datablocks, and whether I want the crossfill enabled - I liked having the 430s set up so crossfill worked one way only - this is apparently not an option with the IFDs. I had the installer disable the crossfill, but I can see some advantages in having it on.

So far I'm very pleased. No doubt once I read the manuals and get things configured better I'll be even happier.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DH82FLYER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2016 at 5:02am
Hi Clyde,
Congratulations... I'm in the Brisbane area and I've been flying with the IFD540 for over 12 months.
Great equipment, but complex and different in some aspects. I know the unit very well and if I can help in anyway, don't hesitate to contact me (via a PM).

Thomas


Edited by DH82FLYER - 06 Jan 2016 at 5:48am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clydeps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2016 at 5:25am
I figured out one thing - the FMS Setup page is accessed by pressing the Map Setup LSK, then pressing it again! The manual does not tell you this!

This screenshot from the simulator shows the issue with entering user waypoints.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2016 at 7:39am

#8: There is a GPS screen with the satellite signal strength bars and other data.  Press the AUX rocker to get to the SYS tab, then press the "Select" hot key until GPS is displayed.  (There are about four or five different Select screens you can cycle through.)

David Bunin

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 94S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2016 at 10:21am
#3: I haven't tried it on the real box, but I've noticed this on the simulator.  You can see the whole text string while in the alpha keyboard, but only the first 6 or 7 characters when in the numeric keyboard.  There is plenty of room to display the whole string on the 540 in both keyboards, but I'm not sure what they'd do with it on the numeric keyboard on the 440.  I suppose it could at least be made so that it displays where the cursor is in the string so you can see what you're editing.  They way it is now, if you want to edit a value that is to the right of what you can see, you have to switch to the alpha keyboard to get the cursor where you want it, switch to the numeric keyboard if it's a number your trying to change, and then switch back to the alpha keyboard to confirm the change is correct.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSimpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2016 at 10:31am
Originally posted by clydeps clydeps wrote:

I flew with my new IFD 440s today for the first time. They generally worked well, but I had a few issues - some of which I have now learnt more about by reading the manual, but which were not intuitively obvious at the time.

1) The map was stuck in North up orientation - which is not even one of the options in the setup. I tried heading up and track up in the user setup with no success. I now read in the manual that North up toggles by pressing the bottom right knob. I did not figure that out in flight.

2) The "Class C ahead" alerts drove me crazy. Firstly, I was IFR so it wasn't an issue, but some of them were spurious, e.g. immediately after takeoff I got an alert because there is class C at 1500 ft. I wasn't going to enter that, but it alerted me anyway, which is not what I needed at the time. A little later I went into the setup to try to turn those off, but could not do so. I now read in the manual that there is a "setup FMS" selection, but this was not available in flight, only "User options", and the only thing I could do there was toggle the audible alert, not the CAS alert. I don't have the plane handy today to check this on the ground but will do so tomorrow.

3) Entering user waypoints was complicated by the fact that the numeric keypad presentation hides most of the data field that is being edited.

4) What I really loved was flying a GPS approach. Here in Oz we have no WAAS so there are no LNAV/VNAV or LPV approaches, but I got LNAV+V on a GPS approach, and the FMS view shows the altitude limitations for the fixes - apart from briefing the MDA and missed approach, I did not need to look at the approach chart. From the FAF I got a glideslope on the PFD and flew it as a coupled approach - just magic.

5) The COM frequency selection was good, but not quite as good as I expected. Twisting the knob brings up a list of frequencies, but half the time the one I wanted wasn't in there - the departure frequency, some en-route centre frequencies, and the destination AWIS did not appear - but once I dialled them in I did get the text saying what they were, so they are in the database somewhere.

6) The IFDs get very hot! They were in sunlight and remained completely readable, unlike the 430s that get a white cast when hot, but both the screen and the sides of the bezel got hot enough that touching them was unpleasant. I am somewhat surprised by this - I expected them to run cooler than the 430s.

7) Some of the touch-sensitive fields are quite small and it's easy to press the wrong thing. The knobs are more useful than I expected.

8) I could not find anywhere to display GPS status - i.e. satellites in view and use. Not essential I suppose, but I've had issues with other equipment where this information has been useful so I don't see why it's absent.

9) The COM radio is quite loud. On the ground I found I needed the volume turned down to only one click above silent. Needed a little more in the air, but it does seem to be louder than the 430s were.

I still have to decide how to set up the datablocks, and whether I want the crossfill enabled - I liked having the 430s set up so crossfill worked one way only - this is apparently not an option with the IFDs. I had the installer disable the crossfill, but I can see some advantages in having it on.

So far I'm very pleased. No doubt once I read the manuals and get things configured better I'll be even happier.

1. As you mentioned, you can cycle through the different views on the MAP page by pressing in on the right hand knob. This will cycle from Forward Track Up, Centered Track Up and North Up. (3-2 in the Pilots Guide)

6. The bezel is designed as an additional heat sink for the units. The buttons themselves should never get hot, but the bezel may in certain conditions. There are integral fans in the IFD440s that should mitigate some of the heat build up.

Simpson Bennett
Avidyne Corporation
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ronl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2016 at 10:54am
Hi Clyde,
Glad you like your new 440's. One thing that was not readily apparent to me on the IFD's is that if a LSK (line select key) has all blue text, then pushing it does just the one thing. However, if some of the text is in white, then pushing the LSK will toggle through multiple options. 

I found this behavior a little confusing at first but this was quickly overcome once I understood the different LSK behaviors. This is Avidyne's version of the "Garmineze" language I guess. Shall we call it "Avideze" :-)

Ron L
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MysticCobra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2016 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by clydeps clydeps wrote:

9) The COM radio is quite loud. On the ground I found I needed the volume turned down to only one click above silent. Needed a little more in the air, but it does seem to be louder than the 430s were.

I am glad you mentioned this.  I have noticed this on my 540, as well, but I keep forgetting to spend time on the ground to dig into the user options to try to fix it (I think there *is* a gain setting that will help with this).  As delivered by my installer, it feels to me like the volume goes from 0 to about 85% of max volume in the first click, and then the next 10 clicks (or however many there are) only cover that last 15% from 85% to 100% volume.


Edited by MysticCobra - 06 Jan 2016 at 3:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Craig767 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2016 at 11:16am
Same here for my 540. have it down to one or two clicks above off. Was wondering if the gain is in settings or something the installer has to adjust.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clydeps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2016 at 4:15pm
There is nothing in the installation settings that affects the COM volume. The user setup COM volume setting is just another way of getting to the same thing that the volume knob controls.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2016 at 9:01am
First I've ever heard of the radios being so loud that you're using them one click above off.    I see two reports of that here.  Anybody else experience this?
Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mgrimes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2016 at 9:56am
I believe I normally run mine on 2 clicks (both 540 and 440). I agree they seem to be calibrated very loud. Thanks,
Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote comancheguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2016 at 10:48am
I concur. 

Ken
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2016 at 10:52am
Okay, so far my count is:

Clydeps
Craig767
MysticCobra
mgrimes
comancheguy

5 folks is 5 more than I ever knew about so that's big enough to warrant a look on our end.  We're on it.
Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AUXAIR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2016 at 11:02am
Add me to the list - 1-2 clicks up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clydeps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2016 at 1:24pm
Originally posted by ronl ronl wrote:

Hi Clyde,
One thing that was not readily apparent to me on the IFD's is that if a LSK (line select key) has all blue text, then pushing it does just the one thing. However, if some of the text is in white, then pushing the LSK will toggle through multiple options. 

That's a useful tip - thanks. Here's a pic of my stack.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clydeps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2016 at 1:39pm
I spent a bit of time yesterday fiddling with the IFDs on ground power, and found one odd thing - in OBS mode with GPS1 selected on the PFD, the course would not change. I eventually found that the installer had put the #2 unit in the #1 slot. After swapping them the behaviour is as follows:

With cross-sync disabled, the PFD NAV source selection works as expected - i.e. with GPS1 selected, the correct data is displayed and in OBS mode the course pointer updates the #1 IFD and the MFD. Similarly with GPS2 selected - it works as expected.

With cross-sync enabled, the #1 IFD appears to behave as a master - if I have GPS1 selected on the PFD and OBS mode (on both IFDs since they now track each other) the course pointer updates both IFDs. But with GPS 2 selected the course does not change as the pointer is moved - it stays at whatever GPS1 had before I changed the NAV source on the PFD. It seems that the PFD is sending the course to the #2, but that is being overridden by cross-sync commands from #1 (which is not getting the course from the PFD.)

If I turn off the #1 (or put it into maintenance mode) then the GPS2 selection works as expected.

Now in practical terms this is not a big deal - the only time I'd be relying on the #2 for guidance is if the #1 has failed, but it does tend to confirm my view that the cross-sync feature couples the two units rather more tightly than I would have liked. The 430 feature of one-way crossfill had a few rough edges but by and large it worked well. I'd like to see a refined version of that available as an setup option in the IFDs. Right now it's all or nothing.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2016 at 6:04pm

Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

Okay, so far my count is:

Clydeps
Craig767
MysticCobra
mgrimes
comancheguy

5 folks is 5 more than I ever knew about so that's big enough to warrant a look on our end.  We're on it.

Jake, I also tend to run mine at the very low end of the volume scale (2 or maybe rarely 3) but I never really considered that to be a problem.

In the Volumes section of the AUX pages I have the rest of them set closer to mid-scale.  I'll try to take a picture of my volumes screen the next time I'm at the plane.

David Bunin

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2016 at 6:40pm
For those of you who are experiencing this, can you list your:

1.  Audio Panel
2.  Headsets

Thanks.
Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MysticCobra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2016 at 6:57pm
Audio panel:  AMP240
Headsets:  Halo and basic David Clark H10-13.4
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote comancheguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2016 at 7:21pm
It's not really a problem... 

GMA 340 
Lightspeed zulu 1 
halo - quiet technologies. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clydeps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2016 at 7:49pm
Audio panel: PMA8000BT
Headsets: Zulu 2 and Zulu PFX

Turning the audio panel off (so COM1 is connected directly to the pilot headset) makes virtually no difference to the level. With the audio panel on the speaker volume is also more than adequate one or two clicks above silent.

Adjusting the volume through its full range seems linear (which means it's correctly logarithmic) but by full volume it was unbearably loud.

I also was a little startled the first time I spoke to ATC by the volume of the sidetone. It was much louder than expected.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2016 at 7:47am

1. Audio Panel: PMA-450
2. Headset: Lightspeed Zulu.2

I can't do the "turn off the audio panel" experiment, because the IFD is the #2 radio in my configuration.  I will try to do the cockpit speaker test next time I'm flying.  (I am down for maintenance at the moment.)

David Bunin

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DH82FLYER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2016 at 11:04pm
Jake, same for me...my volume is set on the bottom end of the scale. I'm using GMA340 with Halo and David Clarkes but it appears to be independent of the headset type.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TogaDriver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2016 at 2:43am
Add me to the list:  one or two clicks is all the volume I can use before its too loud.

PS Eng PMA450
Lightspeed Zulu 2s w/panel power

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AUXAIR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2016 at 8:36am

Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

For those of you who are experiencing this, can you list your:

1.  Audio Panel
2.  Headsets

Thanks.

Audio Panel - G* GMA 340

Headset - Lightspeed Zulu 1

David E.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Craig767 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2016 at 2:18pm
audio panel: AMX 240
headset: Zulu PFX
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mgrimes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2016 at 4:03pm
AMX240 - 
Bose A20  - 
Note: I did confirm yesterday that I actually run it on 3 clicks. Still very low on the overall spectrum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clydeps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2016 at 6:36am
Further to the COM audio level problem - it affects the NAV and alert audio too. Here's what I have for my volume settings - all one or two clicks off silent. And sometimes one click is not enough and two is too much.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote comancheguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2016 at 9:49am
QUOTE=clydeps]Further to the COM audio level problem - it affects the NAV and alert audio too. Here's what I have for my volume settings - all one or two clicks off silent. And sometimes one click is not enough and two is too much.
[/QUOTE]

I agree with that.  Sometimes 1 click is too soft, and two is too loud.  I have thought, more than once, that linear would be better than discreet clicks.



Edited by comancheguy - 15 Jan 2016 at 9:50am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clydeps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2016 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by comancheguy comancheguy wrote:

 I have thought, more than once, that linear would be better than discreet clicks.


The trouble with linear is that it requires the use of an analog potentiometer rather than the digital rotary encoder that is used in the IFDs. The digital approach should be more reliable. If the level problem is solved the adjustment will be moved to the middle of the range, and you will find there is more than enough precision in each click to find just the right level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2016 at 6:36am
As promised, I am including a shot of my volumes screen, but I want to repeat that I do not have any problems with the current behavior of the unit.

It looks like I have the Standby Com and Alerts audio set close to mid-range, but remember that I have another layer of volume control (in the audio panel) for these signals, and I have that set mid-scale.  I do not think that there is a separate volume control in the audio panel for primary Com and Nav audio, so I think they come through "full blast" as far as the audio panel knows.



David Bunin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Craig767 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2016 at 9:36am
Steve, anymore feed back on the Com audio level problem. Getting ready to go see installer for update and few minor issues. If I remember right it was determined that it was not a install problem and the installer cannot make any adjustments to bring the Com audio up to a more midrange setting from the current 1 to 2 clicks from off. Just wanted to confirm that and if any progress on a fix for this issue.

Thanks,

Craig
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Craig767 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 7:42am
Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

Okay, so far my count is:

Clydeps
Craig767
MysticCobra
mgrimes
comancheguy

5 folks is 5 more than I ever knew about so that's big enough to warrant a look on our end.  We're on it.

Steve any update on the 540's being loud.


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