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AXP340 Transponder Certification Status

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AviJake View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 May 2013 at 10:48am
(19 May 2013 Cert Status Update):

Just a quick note to let you know this product development continues on-track for a 2013 certification and product ship.

We're flying units in the Avidyne test fleet as the principal on-board transponder and so far, so good.  
Hardware development is undergoing formal qualification.

Software development is nearing completion.   

As a side note, the IFD540 has been verified to be outputting proper ADS-B compliant GPS position to the transponder.

We intend to time deliveries of this product to be approximately the same time as IFD540 deliveries and maybe a little earlier.
Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2013 at 6:03pm
That is very interesting as I am toying swapping out the 330 "plain" we have, for the AXP 340 when it ships, assuming that it will have extended squitting at release, to become participating.

It will look very nice, below the new 540!

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 19 May 2013 at 6:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2013 at 8:51pm
I'll tweet a picture later this week of the AXP340 I have installed right below the IFD540 in our MA-based test airplane.  It does look very nice.
Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote glassanza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2013 at 7:15pm
I was thinking about swapping my 330 as well, however, if I understand correctly the 340 does not have the capability (chip) of receiving traffic via the existing TIS (old school TIS, not TIS-B) system that I understand is being phased out as we speak. That being said, I fly in Florida a great deal where old school TIS coverage is pretty good. With limited ADS-B "In" options out there that will show traffic on the 540 and/or my G600 I'm not sure I'm willing to give up some traffic on my panel mounted equipment for ADS-B traffic on my iPad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2013 at 1:21am
Yes, it is all a matter of timing.

Happily for now, I have TIS-A from my 330, non-ES. As the TIS-A is phased out, the TIS-B will fill out, and the hardware will shake out as well.

I am looking at solutions to becoming participating. I will reevaluate these once there are two or three alternatives, and of course want to ensure complete intercompatibility of my panel mount gear in his regard, the 540 and ASPEN PFD in particular.

* Orest

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurboPA30 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2013 at 12:47pm
As I said before: What Avidyne really should be working on is a REMOTE transponder controllable from the IFD series. Garmin inherited that from the CNX80, decided not to implement in the 430/530Ws, but has it in the 750/650 series: they even can control 2, so you can have your modeC for VFR days, and ADS-B for IFR days. I don't really see teh value of a TXP taking up panel space.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SB Jim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2013 at 12:47pm
Remote transponders are fine for those who have panel space limitations.
 
My Bonanza has plenty of room; I'd prefer to have a stand alone unit. The remotely controlled transponders do induce some additional failure modes not inherent in a stand alone unit.
 
Best is to give the customer the choice. Personally, I'll take a stand alone unit that is a direct slide in replacement for my KT76A.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurboPA30 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2013 at 12:51pm
With dual IFD540ies you run out of space very quickly....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2013 at 11:32am
As for the panel vs remote mount debate, we agree with both positions....

As you all know, the first product we announced and are completing is the panel mount variant.   We have not announced plans for a remote mount variant but recognize that many owners would find that kind of product very useful and/or desirable in solving panel space challenges or just the overall cleanliness of a panel.

At this point, we're focused on completing and delivering the announced product variants.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1964-m20e Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2013 at 10:01am
AviJake
 
Has any thought been given to making an APX340 that is a slide in for the GTX327?
I would love to have that at the time I get my IFD440.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2013 at 11:29am
Yes, we thought about it but had to choose between the KT76A (approximately 120,000 installed units) vs the GTX327 (a lot less than 120K installed units) and went with the larger, older units for the plug and play model.

We don't have any current plans to make a P & P variant for the 327.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TogaDriver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2013 at 11:47am
The good news is transponders don't require a lot of install effort.  The bad news is my questions about communication between Garmin 330ES (which I have) and IFD units remain unanswered.  Garmin guy I know says no one has asked Garmin for the formats yet.

Do we know if there is any path to using IFD as ADSB source for GTX-330ES yet?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote glassanza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2013 at 4:53pm

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  Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This PostPosted: 07 Jun 2013 at 8:14pm

With respect to the configuration that PH has, I'm not sure but also not optimistic. What we do know is that the IFD540 will transmit ADS-B compliant GPS position. We support several protocols and freely publish those protocols for any other vendor to use. The IFD540 does also accept data from a 330 TIS for display. However, what we can't get a clear read on now is whether the Garmin 330 will accept our position output data and thus be a truly functional combination of equipment. At least up to now, the 330 is considered a closed, and not cooperative or collaborative system.

I don't know if this answers TogaDriver's question but this was in response to a ADS-B related question from another forum/thread which AviJake responded to on June 7, 2013. I don’t know if anything has changed since the June response.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote glassanza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2013 at 5:17pm
Additionally I agree with what TurboPA30 said on June 26 of this thread with regard to development of a remote transponder option. A couple of 540's do eat up alot of panel space but that's not the only point. The fact is the 750/650 series units have it and I have to say I like it because its innovative and cutting edge. I have no problem with the concept of plug-n-play swap out for new technology, in fact I hope to take advantage of it soon, however I hope the Avidyne crew will also work to incorporate some of the new features being introduced into the 540/440 like the remote transponder and even possibley a remote audio panel.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TogaDriver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2013 at 8:27pm
According to my talk with the Garmin rep who haunts Vansairforce.com (4000+ members), you can contact Garmin to discuss getting their formats.  I do not know what sort of legal or contractual arrangement this requires but again, according to them, the ball's in your court.

I know it would be nice for Garmin to update their device support to include the open formats but perhaps its more likely you can add support for their transponder and be the hero.  

I'm not a fan of finger-pointing.  Has Avidyne called Garmin to discuss the ADSB support for GTX-330ES? If not, are you going to?  Adding a serial software output format is generally a low-risk feature in my experience.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2013 at 9:36pm
Avidyne asked.  Garmin declined.  We've moved on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2013 at 6:40am
....and its that demonstrated arrogance and behavior time and time again (from big G) why I'm still here supporting Avidyne. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TogaDriver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2013 at 7:27pm
Well... at least I have an answer now.  I wish I had that clear an answer before I upgraded my 330 to an ES.  

Now I have to face the likely need to remove and replace that transponder if I want to do my plug-and-play IFDs.  Arg.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2014 at 2:50pm
(14 Jan 2014 Cert Status Update)

The AXP340 is certified.  It has TSO and ETSO now.    It is certified as a 1090 ES Mode S Transponder.

We start shipments of it later this month (January 2014).   It's available in Black or Grey bezels.

I'll update the pilot guide link in a few minutes with the released version of the pilot guide.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2014 at 8:40pm
BTW, no STC required.  Installation basis can be via 337 or via a log book entry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PA20Pacer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2014 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

BTW, no STC required.  Installation basis can be via 337 or via a log book entry.

Hi Steve, et. al.-

As I begin to think seriously about the installation of my IFD540 and an AXP340 transponder, I realize that I am confused, and probably uninformed. I have seen an FAA Policy Memo dated 30 August 2010, titled “Approval for ADS-B Out Systems” that states that until further notice, ADS-B Out equipment meeting the requirements of TSO-C166b or TSO-C143c shall only be installed as OEM production equipment, OEM service bulletin or Supplemental Type Certificate (STC). 

The IFD540 Installation Manual includes the following Note in Table 54: ADS-B Output "ADS-B output requires a separate installation approval", indicating to me that ADS-B out is not covered by STC SA00343BO.

Can anyone enlighten me as to the approval basis of the combination of IFD540 and AXP340 as an ADS-B out system? Perhaps the FAA Policy Memo referenced above is outdated, or the standards under which the AXP340 is certified cover ADS-B out approval. I have been spending too much time with Google and not getting anywhere.

Thanks.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2014 at 6:47pm
As of today (24 Oct 2014), the combined IFD540-AXP340 is not an approved ADS-B Out system - hence the reason for the IM note.

We have a very active STC project underway for that approval.  I hesitate to predict when it will be approved.  Might be two weeks.  Might be two months.

As a side note, one of the pieces of data that we're using in the STC data package is the FAA's own ADS-B compliance tool that I see some folks are already using.  When you run it with any IFD540-AXP340 combo, it of course comes back with passing grades but until the STC is approved, technically folks can not use the AXP340 as an ADS-B Out device.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PA20Pacer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2014 at 11:52am
Thanks for the clarification. While my avionics shop may be up on all of this, I just wanted to be clear in my mind regarding the ADS-B status. I just recently made the decision to upgrade my transponder due to the discount on the AXP340.

Regards,

Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Victor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2014 at 9:07am
Steve,

Can we please have an update on the STC approval issue?

Can tell us, is Avidyne still working on it or are we waiting for the FAA to give their final approval?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Victor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2014 at 11:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2014 at 9:44am
Transponder STC status is trucking along.  It's been in the hands of the FAA for a few weeks.  They have generated several action items and additional data requests and we are in a back-and-forth state where we service the actions and await the next wave.    That's a good thing in that there are no show stoppers and it indicates it's being actively worked.   It's not possible to tell right now if there are any more layers of the onion to peel back.  So it could take another week, it could take another month.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ddgates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2014 at 3:04pm
Got my integrity report from FAA on my AXP340 ADS-B install.

They are supposed to blackball an install for an unapproved position source per their literature, and FAA knows this is AXP340/IFD540.

Everything reported to be as it should! Faa says - "Looks good".

Woohoo...

Edited by ddgates - 10 Nov 2014 at 3:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2014 at 8:31am
What is the current delivery lead time on a new AXP340 order?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2014 at 9:45am
It varies from week to week depending on inventory.  A unit ordered today (14 Nov) would ship on 25 Nov.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2014 at 2:31pm
Per notes in other forum threads, there seem to be serious delays. My unit was ordered sometime during the 10 days before 14 Nov, and I just heard from my dealer today that delivery is expected mid-end January.

A bit frustrating because I now have the IFD540 in hand pending installation (after a 3 year wait) and won't be able to schedule it now until the AXP340 arrives. My shop won't even discuss scheduling until the unit actually arrives, due to past experience with Avidyne delivery statements.

Installing the IFD540 without the AXP340 doesn't make any sense because the 340 is replacing a G330 which involves a new tray and cabling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2014 at 3:13pm
It would be some extra work but if your installer could loan you a KT76 or KT76A, or KT78
transponder w/tray they could remove the Garmin unit and pre-assemble the new 12 pin cable(ADS-B)
from the IFD540 and secure it behind your panel, then  install the loaner KT76 w/tray.
 
When your AXP340 arrives, remove the KT76 w/tray and install the AXP340.
From AXP340 install manual:

The AXP340 has two Molex edge connectors, one with 24 contacts, which is the primary interface, and a second connector with 12 contacts which carries signals to support ADS-B. A single coaxial connector attaches to the antenna. In simple installations it is possible to omit wiring for the second connector altogether.

The Molex edge connector used in the AXP340 is similar to the connector used on the KT76A, KT76C and KT78A transponders, and the common signals on the primary connector use the same contact positions and are electrically compatible. The antenna connector is also compatible. Providing that the wiring is appropriately installed, it is intended that you can upgrade a KT76A, KT76C or KT78A installation to the AXP340 without any connector rewiring. Before doing that however, you MUST check that the wiring for the existing transponder is in good condition.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2014 at 3:24pm
Thanks for the suggestion Gary.

As mentioned, the AXP340 is replacing a G330, which is an S-txpdr and mandatory in controlled airspace here in Europe. So a KT76 or KT78 isn't an alternative.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2014 at 9:18pm
Vince,
 
There is probably little possibility of a loaner KT74 (mode S ) available to you in Europe.
This is supposed to be a slide in replacement for the KT76:
 
The KT 74 supports the ADS-B OUT * 1090-ES improvements needed to optimize efficiency and situational awareness, within the Air Traffic System. The KT 74 is also a plug and play slide-in replacement for the popular BendixKing KT 76A/C and KT 78 Transponders.
 
I am mainly thinking of how to capture the physical tray size/location/ wiring for your panel to prepare it for the arrival of the AXP340, allowing your installer to work on it before the end of next month. 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pburger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2014 at 6:06pm
Gary - That is exactly what my installer did:  He put in a loaner KT-76A while we wait for Avidyne.  Avidyne really screwed the pooch on the delivery of the AXP-340.  They gave a date certain, and we made decisions based on that.  Then we found out that it was delayed three weeks.  No heads up whatsoever.  We had to call them when it didn't arrive as expected.  The good news is that it has given me some time to ring the system out a bit so that when I go back for the xpndr swap out, I should have a complete squawk list for the installer.

Edited by pburger - 10 Dec 2014 at 10:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2014 at 6:18pm
A TT31 would also fit in the slot and is Mode S.  They have been around for a few years so there is more possibility of finding one used or for a loaner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2015 at 12:09pm
Steve,

Is an official statement available from Avidyne that an AXP340 installation is aminor alteration (without ADSB-Out activated)?

My A&P wants that in addition to the TSO to cover installation in my specific aircraft.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2015 at 2:32pm
What are you coming from, device-wise? 

I don’t think we can make a blanket statement. Each installation is different and it depends of the complexity. Replacing a KT76 with a AXP340, is a  minor (w/o ADS-b) and we'd be comfortable making that minor alteration statement. Replacing a Collins TDR-90 (integrated system) with a AXP340, I think would be a major. The installer needs to determine if it is major or minor depending on the scope of work and FAR 43.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2015 at 7:05pm
The AXP340 is replacing a Garmin 330 (without ES).
It is a standard xpdr installation getting data from a Sandia. The only change is that the Garmin is getting data via grey code lines and the 340 cnx is via RS232.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2015 at 5:25pm
To whom in Avidyne should I address my request for a statement on AXP340 std xpdr installation without ADSB as a minor Alteration? My A&P won't sign it off without this stmt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2015 at 6:38am
Get a new A&P. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2015 at 8:45am
That's perhaps easy in the US, but FAA licensed A&P's are not so common here in Europe. Anyway, he's just asking for a statement from Avidyne that replacing a standard Garmin 330 transponder with an AXP 340 (without ADS-B activation) is a minor alteration. That shouldn't be hard to get.

Vince
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2015 at 9:09am
We're working on it.
Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2015 at 1:05pm
Given the continued delay with the STC, it would be useful to have at least this statement to get back in the air without ADS-B activated pending STC.

Vince
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2015 at 5:19pm
We picked up our plane today and it now has an IFD 540 and AXP 340.  ADS-B out is enabled.  I mentioned that I had heard about some installers who would not activate ADS-B out because there was no STC and the technician said that they get a field approval from the FSDO.  They also did this for the AMX 240 because it didn't have an STC for our plane.  It sounded pretty routine.

I don't have the logs with me so I can't check the paperwork to see exactly what it says.  But if our installer could do this is there a reason why others can't or won't?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MysticCobra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2015 at 7:59pm
Originally posted by Paul Paul wrote:

We picked up our plane today and it now has an IFD 540 and AXP 340.  ADS-B out is enabled.  I mentioned that I had heard about some installers who would not activate ADS-B out because there was no STC and the technician said that they get a field approval from the FSDO.  They also did this for the AMX 240 because it didn't have an STC for our plane.  It sounded pretty routine.

I don't have the logs with me so I can't check the paperwork to see exactly what it says.  But if our installer could do this is there a reason why others can't or won't?


Yes, there is a reason:  Just because one FSDO will grant a field approval doesn't mean another will.

Mine will not.  Thus, my installer will not enable ADSB-out until the STC is approved.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2015 at 9:54pm
Wow.  I didn't realize they were quite that screwed up.

I think I'm glad I am not in the avionics business.  Steve, you and everyone else at Avidyne deserve a raise for putting up with this "stuff".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sikhpilotmd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2015 at 10:20pm
See this from FAA after I requested a check on ADS-B out :

Requested report attached.  Everything looks good now.

 

 

Provided by:

Federal Aviation Administration

Flight Standards Division

Avionics Branch (AFS-360)

Washington, DC

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2015 at 8:57am
Originally posted by chflyer chflyer wrote:

That's perhaps easy in the US, but FAA licensed A&P's are not so common here in Europe. Anyway, he's just asking for a statement from Avidyne that replacing a standard Garmin 330 transponder with an AXP 340 (without ADS-B activation) is a minor alteration. That shouldn't be hard to get.


There was no meaningful progress on this request this past week.  I'll try to kick start the effort on Monday.
Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2015 at 6:34pm
Avidyne statement:  A non ADS-B replacement of a TSO’d transponder, using standard interface to an approved altitude source should  be a minor alteration. That determination may vary from FSDO to FSDO in the US.

Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2015 at 5:22am
Thank you, Steve.

Vince
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