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Adding a HOLD at the FAF?

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chflyer View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 Jun 2022 at 12:55pm
I'm looking for suggestions on how to add a HOLD at the FAF. Putting the cursor on or immediately after any WPT in an IAP and then hitting ENTER the first pop up option is to add a HOLD after that WPT, with the exception of the FAF. In that case, the pop up only presents the list of IAPs again and expects selection of a new IAP. 

I got this scenario yesterday and it kept me quite busy trying to get the IFD set up properly while in the middle of the approach.

The IAP was the VOR/DME approach to RWY 24 at LSZG Grenchen. The waypoint list is WIL (IAF) - NEMAG - ARVAN (FAF) - 24VOR - MD24 (MAP).

I was cleared for the approach and was on the WIL-NEMAG leg when ATC cancelled my approach clearance and told me to continue on the approach but hold at ARVAN. WIL-NEMAG has a track of 323 and NEMAG to the MAP at MD24 has a track of 255 (11deg offset to RWY24 which is 244deg). The hold is to the East and the inbound track to ARVAN in the hold is also 255.

The only solution I found was to enter ARVAN as a waypoint at the end of the FPL and then add a hold to it. I then waited until I was on the leg from NEMAG to ARVAN on heading 255 and then did DCT--> to my new ARVAN waypoint at the end of the FPL. When I was cleared again for the approach while in the hold, I activated the IAP leg to the ARVAN in the FPL when I was inbound to ARVAN in the hold. I was quite busy button-pushing on the IFD!

This is rather a big cludge because the IFD has no idea what I'm up to. The ARVAN hold at the end of the FPL is completed disconnected from the IAP. So when I do a DCT to it, the entire IAP disappears from the MAP (as expected) and the hold is sort of standalone on the MAP. Of course, once I've activated the leg to ARVAN in the IAP further up the FPL then the entire IAP appears again on the MAP and the world is again as it should be ;-)

If anyone can think of an easier way to solve this problem, I'd be glad to hear it. There must be something simple that I've overlooked.

Vince
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oskrypuch View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2022 at 12:11pm
And, you have to fiddle around to add the IAF waypoint, just before the approach. I don't know of any other way to do that.

I think the fix for this, and similar issues in waypoint sequencing and GAPS, is (wait for it...) 10.3 !

* Orest
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote P35Pilot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2022 at 12:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote P35Pilot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2022 at 12:22pm
An option to hold PPOS (present position) would be nice and could be used for this type of scenario.

Y. Limor
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oskrypuch View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2022 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by P35Pilot P35Pilot wrote:

An option to hold PPOS (present position) would be nice and could be used for this type of scenario.


That, and other quick on-the-fly waypoint creations referencing upcoming waypoints (eg. 10nm before XYZ) would be a God-send.

I first penned such a suggestion years ago.

* Orest
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chflyer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2022 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by oskrypuch oskrypuch wrote:

And, you have to fiddle around to add the IAF waypoint, just before the approach. I don't know of any other way to do that.

I think the fix for this, and similar issues in waypoint sequencing and GAPS, is (wait for it...) 10.3 !

* Orest

I tried the scenario on the IFD 10.3 trainer after I got home, and behaviour was the same..... so 10.3 doesn't seem to bring any better solution or other relief.
Vince
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M20J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2022 at 4:24pm
Our ATC rules (at least in Canada, but I thinks it's an ICAO standard) prohibit us from using a hold at a FAF on an RNAV approach, I believe due to the CDI scaling that occurs starting 2nm from the FAF. I know the OP was flying a VOR approach and we have no prohibition for issuing holds at the FAFs of ILS/LOC/VOR/NDB approaches but it seems that Avidyne will not allow a hold on any FAF within an approach procedure. So the only option is to add the FAF as a stand alone fix outside of the approach procedure in the FMS and then add a hold to it. I do think they should change it so that holds can be added to FAFs of approaches based on traditional ground based nav aids.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DH82FLYER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2022 at 7:47pm
Originally posted by P35Pilot P35Pilot wrote:

An option to hold PPOS (present position) would be nice and could be used for this type of scenario.

Y. Limor

Agree, holding at Present Position should’ve been available years ago.
In my part of the world this is a frequent request and there are no easy workarounds for the IFD.
However based on the delays with 10.3, it’ll be some years before we see 10.3.X.

Thomas


Edited by DH82FLYER - 06 Jun 2022 at 7:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MysticCobra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2022 at 10:27pm
Originally posted by DH82FLYER DH82FLYER wrote:

However based on the delays with 10.3, it’ll be some years before we see 10.3.X.
We still haven't even seen 10.3, yet.

Originally posted by oskrypuch oskrypuch wrote:

(wait for it...) 10.3 !
We have.  For years and years....


Edited by MysticCobra - 06 Jun 2022 at 10:30pm
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